Compressor surge, or BOV flutter? (my evo)
Mar 6, 2010, 12:04 PM
#16
Since I have gone to ecu controlled boost I have been experiencing the same flutter that you are. For me it happens during the same 2-3k rpm in 3rd or 4th. I am achieving more boost than with my forge mbc. My feeling is that I need to crank the WGA down a bit. I was never happy with the dip after peak boost that the forge was giving me. Some say the Hallman was better. Basically they both are a ball and spring...so I can't see that they would be drastically different.
If I were you I would experiment with the WGDC 100% under this load. I found that moving it down from 200 helped. It almost seemed that something was conflicting with that setting creating the WG to open/close very fast. There is a thread on this somewhere. Tephra alluded to this problem.
This stuff is a challenge isn't it?
If I were you I would experiment with the WGDC 100% under this load. I found that moving it down from 200 helped. It almost seemed that something was conflicting with that setting creating the WG to open/close very fast. There is a thread on this somewhere. Tephra alluded to this problem.
This stuff is a challenge isn't it?
I think ur right, and I need to look into tightening up the wastegate, as suggested earlier as well.
The WGDC under "x" load is not an option for me anymore, as I have a resident demon from hell residing in my laptop, that has a beef w/ tephras roms... SOB! But when I had a fresh rom a few roms ago, I lowered that to 160, and it had no effect on the flutter. I will say, that the next fresh rom I tried, I left it @ 200, and the car felt stronger down low.
Every time I try to load up a new fresh tephra rom, and transfer all the maps, its fine for the first few days. I just do a quick test to see if the gears are reading correctly, (which they do @ first) do a quick run through to get the tune close, then by the following weekend, when I wanna really nail it down, the gears are reading off... (w/ no changes made to anything!) thoroughly frustrating! done this @least 5/6 times in the last 2 months.
lol, and yes its quite challenging! Im trying no to give up here, but my comp is making it damn near impossible! Would be nice if the demon in my comp would eat **** and die!
Ive had my 3-port for over a year, and my memory sux, but if I remember correctly the flutter started after the install of the 3-port. Maybe it does have somethin to do w/ it. I dont think it was as pronounced @ first or I would have noticed it, cause I used to do all my 3rd gear pulls @ 2000.
Could it be from over tightening the wastegate? Just a thought...
I dont feel the "grunt" of the TQ hitting, until the flutter is done...
Mar 6, 2010, 12:33 PM
#18
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Found the posts amoung the thousands in the v7 thread
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7717990-post1049.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7718760-post1052.html
Had to use google search to find it. I used to admin/support a board that used the vbulletin software. Good but not perfect...like the search.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7717990-post1049.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7718760-post1052.html
Had to use google search to find it. I used to admin/support a board that used the vbulletin software. Good but not perfect...like the search.
Mar 6, 2010, 01:31 PM
#19
Found the posts amoung the thousands in the v7 thread
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7717990-post1049.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7718760-post1052.html
Had to use google search to find it. I used to admin/support a board that used the vbulletin software. Good but not perfect...like the search.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7717990-post1049.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/7718760-post1052.html
Had to use google search to find it. I used to admin/support a board that used the vbulletin software. Good but not perfect...like the search.
appauld: had asked if I had a hose from the BOV, that ran to the IM. I do, it runs to the valve cover (metal bar on the side of the valve cover) that runs to the IM, then is T'ed off w/ a line that runs through the firewall...
Not sure whats w/ that, other than I have the EGR removed and a block off plate, and he said he was ting off somethin. But I dont think that has anything to do w/ that.heres a couple shots of what Im talkin bout...
Boost guage???
Last edited by nonschlont; Mar 6, 2010 at 11:37 PM.
Mar 6, 2010, 05:12 PM
#20
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I would assume that it is T'd there for the Boost Gauge. I do not see Zip ties on the lines. I recommend zip tieing them to help avoid leaks.
I would also recommend using the vacuum line going to the fuel pressure regulator as the source for the boost gauge. Then run a single line to the BOV.
It appears that the BOV has been crushed slightly too. Could be that it is crushed a little too much and does not open as well as it should under partial boost conditions. Try running a single line to it to see if the condition improves.
I found that if you are boosting higher than stock, that you should also adjust the wastegate actuator tighter as well. For the Wastegate actuator....run a dedicated line directly to the boost controller and then another dedicated line off of the J pipe directly to the boost controller. This will allow the most consistent boost control.
I would also recommend using the vacuum line going to the fuel pressure regulator as the source for the boost gauge. Then run a single line to the BOV.
It appears that the BOV has been crushed slightly too. Could be that it is crushed a little too much and does not open as well as it should under partial boost conditions. Try running a single line to it to see if the condition improves.
I found that if you are boosting higher than stock, that you should also adjust the wastegate actuator tighter as well. For the Wastegate actuator....run a dedicated line directly to the boost controller and then another dedicated line off of the J pipe directly to the boost controller. This will allow the most consistent boost control.
Mar 6, 2010, 11:35 PM
#21
I would assume that it is T'd there for the Boost Gauge. I do not see Zip ties on the lines. I recommend zip tieing them to help avoid leaks.
I would also recommend using the vacuum line going to the fuel pressure regulator as the source for the boost gauge. Then run a single line to the BOV.
It appears that the BOV has been crushed slightly too. Could be that it is crushed a little too much and does not open as well as it should under partial boost conditions. Try running a single line to it to see if the condition improves.
I found that if you are boosting higher than stock, that you should also adjust the wastegate actuator tighter as well. For the Wastegate actuator....run a dedicated line directly to the boost controller and then another dedicated line off of the J pipe directly to the boost controller. This will allow the most consistent boost control.
I would also recommend using the vacuum line going to the fuel pressure regulator as the source for the boost gauge. Then run a single line to the BOV.
It appears that the BOV has been crushed slightly too. Could be that it is crushed a little too much and does not open as well as it should under partial boost conditions. Try running a single line to it to see if the condition improves.
I found that if you are boosting higher than stock, that you should also adjust the wastegate actuator tighter as well. For the Wastegate actuator....run a dedicated line directly to the boost controller and then another dedicated line off of the J pipe directly to the boost controller. This will allow the most consistent boost control.
Yes, the BOV is crushed, but just right, as I have minimal flutter @ partial.
I'll see what I can do about the wastegate, but most likely gonna need some help w/ that 1. (I sometimes wish I didnt have that POS undertray on, and had the beatrush peice) The wastegate was tightened a couple turns when I had the hotside ported, but maybe needs a couple more?
The BCS lines are routed as u described. Done @ an evo specific shop. Guages were not...
Dumb questions: Best spot to get some vac line? Autozone?
So there is a line connected in 2 spots next to what I believe is the FPR (left hand side of IM, next to the 3 bar map sensor) Im assuming I could use the "t" for that, but would still need to locate where the boost guage connection is, and run a new line from there long enough to reach the FPR? Or is there a extension of some sort, like a "t", rather than running a new line? And then just get another new line for the BOV/valve cover location to the IM?
Thanks for the tips Paul! Youre always very helpful!
Last edited by nonschlont; Mar 6, 2010 at 11:39 PM.
Mar 7, 2010, 09:14 AM
#22
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Yeah, Autozone will have vacuum line. I prefer to use fuel line as vacuum line because it is more firm and won't collapse and does not kink as easy. You are using fuel line on your BOV. You can tell because the line has braid inside it and you can see the hex pattern.
Just start with all fresh lines. T's happen to get brittle over time and can crack so I recommend replacing them too.
I also noticed you have all worm screw style clamps. You might want to give them a once over and tighten them up. Worm clamps have a tendency to loosen over time (at least from what I have seen).
You can see the goal here is to eliminate the potential for boost leaks and vacuum leaks. Once the mechanical stuff is taken care of we can then move on to the tune.
Just start with all fresh lines. T's happen to get brittle over time and can crack so I recommend replacing them too.
I also noticed you have all worm screw style clamps. You might want to give them a once over and tighten them up. Worm clamps have a tendency to loosen over time (at least from what I have seen).
You can see the goal here is to eliminate the potential for boost leaks and vacuum leaks. Once the mechanical stuff is taken care of we can then move on to the tune.
Mar 7, 2010, 11:54 AM
#23
Yeah, Autozone will have vacuum line. I prefer to use fuel line as vacuum line because it is more firm and won't collapse and does not kink as easy. You are using fuel line on your BOV. You can tell because the line has braid inside it and you can see the hex pattern.
Just start with all fresh lines. T's happen to get brittle over time and can crack so I recommend replacing them too.
I also noticed you have all worm screw style clamps. You might want to give them a once over and tighten them up. Worm clamps have a tendency to loosen over time (at least from what I have seen).
You can see the goal here is to eliminate the potential for boost leaks and vacuum leaks. Once the mechanical stuff is taken care of we can then move on to the tune.
Just start with all fresh lines. T's happen to get brittle over time and can crack so I recommend replacing them too.
I also noticed you have all worm screw style clamps. You might want to give them a once over and tighten them up. Worm clamps have a tendency to loosen over time (at least from what I have seen).
You can see the goal here is to eliminate the potential for boost leaks and vacuum leaks. Once the mechanical stuff is taken care of we can then move on to the tune.
I'll get some "fuel line" and re-route things... Am I correct w/ the location of the FPR? There are 2 lines that connect right next to each other, there, and looks like I would need a "t" for that. Or is there a better method? I had a diagram of the entire IM/TB/sensors, etc., but when my comp. **** the bed, lost everything... and as u can tell, I wasnt exactly wrenching on any of my previous vehicles... {angel}I agree w/ ya, as I had just replaced this very coupler, w/ a new 1 (thicker ply ETS) and tightened the hell out of it. I'll go over em all again...
If it happends again, I'll get some t-bolts clamps...
Mar 7, 2010, 12:33 PM
#24
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The line for the FPR is on the left side when looking at the engine. It is behind and slightly left of the PVC valve that comes off of the valve cover. The FPR is a small circular device that is silver in color. It has one vacuum line coming off of it that in stock form is wrapped with plastic. I would T in there for your boost gauge.
Mar 7, 2010, 02:12 PM
#25
The line for the FPR is on the left side when looking at the engine. It is behind and slightly left of the PVC valve that comes off of the valve cover. The FPR is a small circular device that is silver in color. It has one vacuum line coming off of it that in stock form is wrapped with plastic. I would T in there for your boost gauge.
Mar 7, 2010, 06:38 PM
#28
It looks like I have 2 options, just tighten up the wastegate arm or add the upgraded spring, and tighten it down?
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...pring-mod.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...pring-mod.html
Mar 7, 2010, 06:43 PM
#29
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The spring thing is kind of ghetto in my mind, but if you want to give it a shot....go for it. I don't know if it would help your situation or not.
If you make the changes I recommended and the situation doe not improve, I would venture to guess that your boost control settings are the issue.
You could always throw on a cheap MBC and see if the situation cures itself.
If you make the changes I recommended and the situation doe not improve, I would venture to guess that your boost control settings are the issue.
You could always throw on a cheap MBC and see if the situation cures itself.
Mar 7, 2010, 07:05 PM
#30
The spring thing is kind of ghetto in my mind, but if you want to give it a shot....go for it. I don't know if it would help your situation or not.
If you make the changes I recommended and the situation doe not improve, I would venture to guess that your boost control settings are the issue.
You could always throw on a cheap MBC and see if the situation cures itself.
If you make the changes I recommended and the situation doe not improve, I would venture to guess that your boost control settings are the issue.
You could always throw on a cheap MBC and see if the situation cures itself.
I have thought about swapping an MBC on, but I think the prob. is either BOV, or wastegate related. I think Im experienceing either wastegate flutter, or BOV leaking causing revision of airflow back into the turbine causing compressor surge, during spool. Although, it seems like, from what I have read, compressor surge happends after peak boost, so possiblt BOV... IDK But just my "guess" from the info I have gathered...
heres a shot of my "stock" boost tables.
