Part to half thorttle pulls seem lean??
Nov 14, 2010, 08:32 AM
#1
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Part to half thorttle pulls seem lean??
I just installed a cop and now for some reason my afr's are 11.9 to 12.1 at part throttle..I was gonna go wot ,but when I install little things like this which no one has ever mentioned that it would require a retune I play it safe and do p/t pulls..
Does afr's change when you go wot compared to p/t??If so I might have to have my tuner add a slash of fuel..Is there a reason that Im seeing this change from installing the new cop??
If I remember correctly I was tuned for 11.3 to 11.4 wot and before the cop install I was seeing mid to low 11's weird thing is I get no knock...Does this seem lean??
Does afr's change when you go wot compared to p/t??If so I might have to have my tuner add a slash of fuel..Is there a reason that Im seeing this change from installing the new cop??
If I remember correctly I was tuned for 11.3 to 11.4 wot and before the cop install I was seeing mid to low 11's weird thing is I get no knock...Does this seem lean??
Nov 14, 2010, 08:46 AM
#4
You want to be a little lean during spool up, it actually helps increase spool up in fact. If you look in some of the tables for Tephras roms there are a few options on lean spool. As long as you are richer than high 12's-13.0 you are just fine.
You need to be worried about AFR at peak load and RPM instead. That is where damage can be done with lean AFRs and knock. From what I have read you are a little wary about tuning, and if this is indeed the case then you need to spend some time reading in this ECUflash forum.
Start with these threads:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...-tune-evo.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...-ecuflash.html
Just take things slow, start with a conservative map and go from there. Make small changes and see how the car reacts, if worse comes to worse than just switch to the previous map where things were fine.
These motors are quite resilient, regardless of what you have read on any forum. There aren't many cars that can make almost double the output they were designed for and still operate reliably for years. Just don't make crazy changes on the timing and fuel tables until you get the hang of it and know what you are doing.
Good luck. If you ever have problems you can post up here with questions, but most of the questions anyone could ask have already been addressed. The ECUflash gurus are really a special kind of members, they know their stuff and are willing to go out of their way to help you.
You need to be worried about AFR at peak load and RPM instead. That is where damage can be done with lean AFRs and knock. From what I have read you are a little wary about tuning, and if this is indeed the case then you need to spend some time reading in this ECUflash forum.
Start with these threads:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...-tune-evo.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...-ecuflash.html
Just take things slow, start with a conservative map and go from there. Make small changes and see how the car reacts, if worse comes to worse than just switch to the previous map where things were fine.
These motors are quite resilient, regardless of what you have read on any forum. There aren't many cars that can make almost double the output they were designed for and still operate reliably for years. Just don't make crazy changes on the timing and fuel tables until you get the hang of it and know what you are doing.
Good luck. If you ever have problems you can post up here with questions, but most of the questions anyone could ask have already been addressed. The ECUflash gurus are really a special kind of members, they know their stuff and are willing to go out of their way to help you.
Nov 14, 2010, 08:49 AM
#5
11.5 AFR @ 30psi is the same as 11.5 AFR at 25psi
At WOT on 93 octane a good AFR value to shoot for is in the range of 10.8-11.4. 11.0 is the goal.
Last edited by buchnerj; Nov 14, 2010 at 08:51 AM.
Nov 14, 2010, 09:04 AM
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You need to read up. The boost and AFR are two separate animals to deal with. Yes a higher boost will affect AFR, but as long as you are keeping your AFRs in the safe zone (at spool up from 11.0-13.0) you will be fine regardless of boost level. This is not to say that the motor itself can handle these boost pressures (head gasket, head studs, etc) but as long as the AFRs are in check don't worry. Your boost should be close to begin with, unless you cranked it up without a proper base tune. You can go rich as hell if you want, but it will only reduce spool time and dump fuel like crazy.
11.5 AFR @ 30psi is the same as 11.5 AFR at 25psi
At WOT on 93 octane a good AFR value to shoot for is in the range of 10.8-11.4. 11.0 is the goal.
11.5 AFR @ 30psi is the same as 11.5 AFR at 25psi
At WOT on 93 octane a good AFR value to shoot for is in the range of 10.8-11.4. 11.0 is the goal.
Car was tuned by a real tuner not me I won't mess with that myself..For some reason I thought that was lean but I guess the lop is not fully opened to for much richer conditions..I guess I'm a bit on the richer side which is better then leaner.The car was tuned for 11.1 to 11.3 in that range at wot.
Spool up is right at 13.6 then starts to drop actually I hit 30 psi at 5,300 rpms and 500 whp at 5,900 rpms and peak whp at 6.700 rpms not to bad I think..Maybe Im a bit more richer then 11.3 at wot maybe around 11.0 or so.Thanks for the link and advise..I just want to be on the safe side.
Nov 14, 2010, 09:08 AM
#7
Car was tuned by a real tuner not me I won't mess with that myself..For some reason I thought that was lean but I guess the lop is not fully opened to for much richer conditions..I guess I'm a bit on the richer side which is better then leaner.The car was tuned for 11.1 to 11.3 in that range at wot.
Spool up is right at 13.6 then starts to drop actually I hit 30 psi at 5,300 rpms and 500 whp at 5,900 rpms and peak whp at 6.700 rpms not to bad I think..Maybe Im a bit more richer then 11.3 at wot maybe around 11.0 or so.Thanks for the link and advise..I just want to be on the safe side.
Spool up is right at 13.6 then starts to drop actually I hit 30 psi at 5,300 rpms and 500 whp at 5,900 rpms and peak whp at 6.700 rpms not to bad I think..Maybe Im a bit more richer then 11.3 at wot maybe around 11.0 or so.Thanks for the link and advise..I just want to be on the safe side.
No worries. That is always the right way to do things when you are not 100% positive.
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Nov 15, 2010, 06:38 AM
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I haven't gone on it wot cause I saw 12.1 at half throttle does that sound lean??I know that 11.0 to 12.0 is the range I wanna be on.I saw the 12.1 at half throttle, and got worried and that's why I haven't gone wot just wanted to be on the safe side.
A couple of people told me part to half throttle pulls will read a bit leaner due to the closed loop ..They also told me that it seems a bit rich for half throttle pulls that it should be more in the low 13.'s due you agree with that??My tuner left the car rich to keep the car safe it's target afrs at wot was 11.1.to 11.2 or so maybe a tad richer.
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