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understanding LTFT low

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Old Sep 9, 2011, 11:25 AM
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understanding LTFT low

Ok so im trying to tune my injectors for minimal or at least decent fuel trim error. I have a 2003 Evo VIII with PTE 1000cc injectors. I was able to dial in my LTFT Mid to about -0.39% which was more then satisfactory for me.

I started in on the LTFT Low as it was maxed out from -12.5% and the STFT at idle was around -20%. I lowered the 14v and 11v latencys in steps of 12-15% and got the STFT to hover around 0% but the LTFT Low stayed at the -12.5%. This makes sense if the value learned by the ecu to keep stoic is -12.5% so the STFT hovers around 0%. I then adjusted the latencys further and was able to get the STFT to hover around +12% and the LTFT Low is at -12.5%. Easy math here tells us that they cancel each other out. Almost... Myproblem is that the LTFT Low never moves from the -12.5% position even though the STFT is constantly between +10-16% What gives?

Ive pasted a section of the idle log in the next post so you can see.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. I did have the car idling for at least 16 min if I remember correctly. Im just sick of wasting time and fuel trying to get these injectors to a good state. I dont know if other people have this much trouble dialing them in. Of course there was a learning curve here...

Thanks for any help

Ethan

Last edited by ethan169; Sep 9, 2011 at 11:27 AM.
Old Sep 9, 2011, 11:26 AM
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This log was taken with EvoScan. O2Feedback = STFT Fuel Trim. FYI

LogEntrySecondsLogNotesTPSRPMTimingAdvKnockSumBatteryKnockVoltageLoad1BJDMMAPWideBandAFInjPulseWidthInjDutyCycleFuelTrim_LowFuelTrim_MidO2FeedbackTrim
38.77171 13.7254902968.7514013.93270.15633.6-4.4395614.68531.5361.16-12.5-3.9062511.71875
38.84169 13.7254902937.518014.006030.136533.6-4.826514.68531.5361.24-12.5-3.9062511.71875
38.91169 13.7254902100012014.006030.46832.4-5.0199714.74411.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.5234375
38.98175 13.725490210008014.006030.097533.6-4.4395614.74411.5361.24-12.5-3.9062511.71875
39.05179 13.7254902937.516014.006030.136533.6-4.4395614.74411.5361.2-12.5-3.9062511.9140625
39.12173 13.7254902100015014.079360.214533.6-5.0199714.72941.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.9140625
39.1917 13.72549021031.255013.93270.175532.4-4.6330314.72941.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.109375
39.2617 13.7254902100010013.93270.19533.6-4.4395614.12671.5361.2-12.5-3.9062512.109375
39.33081 13.7254902968.7516014.079360.15632.4-5.0199714.12671.5361.28-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
39.40369 13.72549021062.57014.006030.23432.4-4.826514.12671.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.5
39.47373 13.725490210006014.079360.097532.4-4.826514.67061.5361.24-12.5-3.9062512.6953125
39.5437 13.7254902968.7514014.006030.136532.4-5.2134414.67061.5361.28-12.5-3.9062512.6953125
39.61371 13.72549021031.2511013.93270.15632.4-4.6330314.75881.5361.36-12.5-3.9062512.890625
39.68269 13.72549021031.253014.006030.07832.4-5.2134414.75881.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.890625
39.75269 13.7254902100011014.079360.253532.4-5.2134414.94991.5361.24-12.5-3.9062513.0859375
39.8227 13.7254902100012014.006030.097532.4-4.6330314.94991.5361.36-12.5-3.9062513.0859375
39.89268 13.72549021093.754014.079360.15632.4-5.4069114.93521.5361.36-12.5-3.9062513.28125
39.96271 13.72549021031.257013.93270.175532.4-4.826514.93521.5361.24-12.5-3.9062513.4765625
40.03272 13.7254902100015014.006030.175532.4-4.826514.93521.5361.32-12.5-3.9062513.671875
40.10271 13.72549021062.57014.006030.35132.4-5.4069114.9941.5361.36-12.5-3.9062513.671875
40.17269 13.72549021031.257014.079360.15632.4-4.826514.9941.5361.32-12.5-3.9062513.8671875
40.24271 13.7254902100013014.079360.097532.4-5.4069115.18511.5361.32-12.5-3.9062513.8671875
40.3127 13.72549021062.510014.079360.136532.4-4.6330315.18511.5361.4-12.5-3.9062514.0625
40.38184 13.72549021062.56014.006030.136532.4-5.4069115.18511.5361.32-12.5-3.9062514.2578125
40.45176 13.7254902100012013.93270.175532.4-5.2134415.22921.5361.32-12.5-3.9062514.2578125
40.52182 13.72549021062.512014.079360.11732.4-5.2134415.22921.5361.4-12.5-3.9062514.453125
40.59172 13.72549021093.755014.006030.175531.2-5.6003815.31741.5361.32-12.5-3.9062514.2578125
40.6617 13.7254902100012014.079360.214532.4-4.826515.31741.5361.28-12.5-3.9062514.2578125
40.73172 13.72549021031.2515014.079360.097532.4-5.4069115.4351.5361.36-12.5-3.9062514.0625
40.80175 13.72549021093.755013.859370.331531.2-4.826515.4351.5361.36-12.5-3.9062514.0625
40.8717 13.72549021031.258014.006030.292531.2-5.4069115.4351.5361.32-12.5-3.9062513.8671875
40.94371 13.7254902100014013.93270.15632.4-5.0199715.42031.5361.32-12.5-3.9062513.8671875
41.01375 13.72549021062.510014.079360.15631.2-5.2134415.42031.5361.4-12.5-3.9062513.671875
41.0837 13.72549021062.55014.006030.136531.2-4.826515.2881.5361.28-12.5-3.9062513.671875
41.1537 13.7254902100014014.079360.15632.4-5.4069115.2881.5361.32-12.5-3.9062513.4765625
41.22384 13.72549021031.2512013.93270.136532.4-5.0199713.93561.5361.36-12.5-3.9062513.4765625
41.29369 13.72549021062.57013.859370.11732.4-5.0199713.93561.5361.28-12.5-3.9062513.28125
41.3637 13.7254902100014014.006030.19532.4-5.4069113.93561.5361.28-12.5-3.9062513.28125
41.43368 13.72549021031.2513014.079360.136533.6-4.6330314.71471.5361.4-12.5-3.9062513.0859375
41.50287 13.72549021062.55014.152690.42932.4-5.4069114.71471.5361.32-12.5-3.9062513.0859375
41.57346 13.7254902100010014.079360.27332.4-4.826514.59711.5361.28-12.5-3.9062512.890625
41.64275 13.72549021031.2515013.93270.19532.4-5.2134414.59711.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.890625
41.71273 13.72549021093.754014.006030.15632.4-5.2134414.65591.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.6953125
41.78279 13.72549021062.57013.93270.097532.4-5.0199714.65591.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.6953125
41.85274 13.72549021062.513014.079360.136532.4-5.4069114.65591.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.5
41.92272 13.725490211255014.006030.292531.2-5.4069114.75881.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.5
41.99281 13.72549021062.58014.079360.097531.2-5.6003814.75881.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
42.06275 13.72549021031.2514013.93270.175532.4-5.0199714.42071.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
42.13335 13.725490211256014.006030.292531.2-5.2134414.42071.5361.44-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
42.20468 13.72549021093.754014.079360.136531.2-5.4069114.37661.5361.36-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
42.27471 13.72549021031.2513014.079360.23432.4-5.4069114.37661.5361.36-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
42.3447 13.72549021093.7512014.079360.11732.4-5.4069114.37661.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.109375
42.41469 13.72549021093.757014.006030.15631.2-5.4069114.5531.5361.36-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
42.4868 13.72549021062.511014.006030.175532.4-5.4069114.5531.5361.36-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
42.55676 13.72549021062.512013.93270.11732.4-5.6003814.59711.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.109375
42.62673 13.72549021062.511013.93270.31232.4-5.2134414.59711.5361.28-12.5-3.9062512.109375
42.69674 13.72549021031.2516014.079360.136532.4-5.6003814.80291.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.9140625
42.76673 13.72549021093.757014.006030.11732.4-5.0199714.80291.5361.4-12.5-3.9062511.9140625
42.83671 13.72549021062.57014.079360.27332.4-5.7938514.80291.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.71875
42.90615 13.72549021031.2514013.93270.11732.4-4.826514.86171.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.71875
42.97611 13.72549021062.59014.006030.175532.4-5.6003814.86171.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.5234375
43.04885 13.72549021031.2510013.93270.23432.4-5.2134414.90581.5361.28-12.5-3.9062511.5234375
43.1187 13.72549021031.2515014.079360.136532.4-5.0199714.90581.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.328125
43.18873 13.72549021062.511014.006030.3931.2-5.6003814.74411.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.328125
43.25777 13.72549021031.2510014.006030.136532.4-4.826514.74411.5361.28-12.5-3.9062511.328125
43.32791 13.7254902100014014.006030.097532.4-5.2134414.74411.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.1328125
43.39771 13.72549021031.2512014.006030.15632.4-5.0199714.45011.5361.4-12.5-3.9062511.1328125
43.46792 13.72549021062.54014.079360.136532.4-5.2134414.45011.5361.32-12.5-3.9062510.9375
43.5377 13.7254902100012014.079360.11733.6-5.4069114.4061.5361.28-12.5-3.9062510.7421875
43.60783 13.7254902100012014.006030.097533.6-4.6330314.4061.5361.36-12.5-3.9062510.7421875
43.67769 13.72549021062.57013.93270.175532.4-5.4069114.46481.5361.32-12.5-3.9062510.546875
43.74774 13.7254902100011013.859370.23433.6-5.2134414.46481.5361.24-12.5-3.9062510.7421875
43.81769 13.7254902100015014.006030.097533.6-4.4395614.46481.5361.32-12.5-3.9062510.7421875
43.88771 13.72549021031.259014.079360.31233.6-5.2134414.49421.5361.36-12.5-3.9062510.9375
43.95672 13.72549021031.256014.006030.11733.6-4.826514.49421.5361.28-12.5-3.9062510.9375
44.02972 13.7254902968.7514014.079360.253533.6-4.6330314.36191.5361.28-12.5-3.9062510.9375
44.09973 13.72549021031.2511013.93270.292533.6-4.6330314.36191.5361.36-12.5-3.9062510.9375
44.1697 13.72549021062.52014.006030.136532.4-5.4069114.71.5361.32-12.5-3.9062510.9375
44.23972 13.725490210009014.006030.19533.6-5.2134414.71.5361.28-12.5-3.9062511.1328125
44.30874 13.72549021031.2514014.006030.11732.4-4.826514.71.5361.4-12.5-3.9062511.1328125
44.37873 13.72549021093.754014.079360.11732.4-5.4069114.71471.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.328125
44.44871 13.72549021031.257014.006030.15632.4-4.826514.71471.5361.28-12.5-3.9062511.5234375
44.51869 13.72549021031.2514014.006030.15632.4-5.4069114.83231.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.5234375
44.58872 13.72549021093.758013.93270.487532.4-4.826514.83231.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.71875
44.65876 13.72549021031.258014.006030.136532.4-5.4069114.59711.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.9140625
44.72873 13.7254902100014014.079360.15632.4-5.0199714.59711.5361.28-12.5-3.9062511.9140625
44.79873 13.72549021031.2513014.006030.175532.4-5.2134414.59711.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.109375
44.86881 13.72549021062.55014.079360.11732.4-5.4069114.86171.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
44.93874 13.7254902100012013.93270.214533.6-4.6330314.86171.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
45.0088 13.72549021062.511014.006030.136532.4-5.6003814.9941.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.5
45.07772 13.72549021093.754013.93270.175531.2-4.826514.9941.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.5
45.14772 13.72549021031.2511014.079360.11732.4-5.2134414.42071.5361.28-12.5-3.9062512.6953125
45.21771 13.72549021031.2514014.079360.175532.4-5.0199714.42071.5361.36-12.5-3.9062512.890625
45.28772 13.72549021062.57014.006030.331531.2-5.4069114.42071.5361.36-12.5-3.9062513.0859375
45.35804 13.72549021031.259013.93270.136532.4-5.2134415.21451.5361.32-12.5-3.9062513.0859375
45.42782 13.72549021031.2513013.859370.15632.4-5.2134415.21451.5361.36-12.5-3.9062513.0859375
45.49774 13.72549021093.757014.006030.331531.2-5.4069115.24391.5361.36-12.5-3.9062513.0859375
45.57009 13.72549021062.58014.006030.097532.4-5.0199715.24391.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.890625
45.64009 13.72549021031.2514014.079360.19532.4-5.6003815.31741.5361.36-12.5-3.9062512.890625
45.70971 13.72549021093.758014.006030.19532.4-5.0199715.31741.5361.36-12.5-3.9062512.6953125
45.77971 13.72549021062.58014.006030.097531.2-5.6003815.31741.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.6953125
45.84974 13.72549021031.2514013.93270.31232.4-5.0199715.24391.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.5
45.91973 13.72549021093.758014.006030.136531.2-5.6003815.24391.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.5
45.98975 13.72549021062.55014.006030.214531.2-5.0199715.12631.5361.36-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
46.05872 13.72549021031.2512014.079360.253532.4-5.2134415.12631.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.3046875
46.12874 13.72549021062.511014.006030.15632.4-5.2134414.9941.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.109375
46.19871 13.72549021093.756014.006030.31231.2-5.4069114.9941.5361.36-12.5-3.9062512.109375
46.26882 13.72549021031.2510013.93270.175531.2-5.4069114.9941.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.9140625
46.33877 13.72549021062.513013.93270.214532.4-5.2134414.62651.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.9140625
46.4087 13.72549021062.59014.079360.253531.2-5.7938514.62651.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.71875
46.47871 13.7254902100013014.006030.11732.4-4.6330314.42071.5361.28-12.5-3.9062511.71875
46.54869 13.72549021031.2513014.006030.214532.4-5.4069114.42071.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.5234375
46.61878 13.72549021062.58013.859370.175532.4-5.2134414.43541.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.5234375
46.68872 13.7254902100011013.859370.136532.4-4.826514.43541.5361.24-12.5-3.9062511.328125
46.75785 13.7254902100016014.006030.097533.6-5.2134414.43541.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.328125
46.82794 13.72549021031.259014.006030.175532.4-4.826514.33251.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.1328125
46.89785 13.72549021031.256014.079360.11732.4-4.826514.33251.5361.24-12.5-3.9062511.1328125
46.9677 13.7254902968.7515014.079360.15633.6-5.4069114.42071.5361.28-12.5-3.9062510.9375
47.03774 13.72549021031.2510013.93270.175532.4-4.6330314.42071.5361.36-12.5-3.9062510.9375
47.1097 13.72549021031.257014.006030.19532.4-5.0199714.43541.5361.28-12.5-3.9062510.7421875
47.17972 13.7254902968.7514014.006030.11733.6-5.2134414.43541.5361.28-12.5-3.9062510.7421875
47.24971 13.72549021031.259014.006030.19532.4-4.6330314.43541.5361.36-12.5-3.9062510.546875
47.31994 13.72549021031.254014.079360.19533.6-5.2134414.49421.5361.28-12.5-3.9062510.7421875
47.3897 13.7254902100012014.006030.097533.6-4.826514.49421.5361.24-12.5-3.9062510.9375
47.45969 13.7254902100011013.93270.15632.4-4.826514.50891.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.1328125
47.52977 13.72549021093.754013.93270.136532.4-5.4069114.50891.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.1328125
47.59971 13.72549021031.2511013.93270.11733.6-4.6330314.59711.5361.28-12.5-3.9062511.328125
47.66971 13.72549021031.2514014.006030.15632.4-5.2134414.59711.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.328125
47.7397 13.72549021093.756014.006030.11732.4-4.826514.59711.5361.4-12.5-3.9062511.5234375
47.81195 13.72549021031.257014.079360.19531.2-5.4069114.71471.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.71875
47.88171 13.72549021031.2513013.93270.136532.4-5.0199714.71471.5361.4-12.5-3.9062511.71875
47.95181 13.72549021093.756014.006030.11731.2-5.4069114.86171.5361.44-12.5-3.9062511.9140625
48.02174 13.72549021093.754014.006030.175531.2-5.0199714.86171.5361.32-12.5-3.9062512.109375
48.0917 13.72549021031.2513014.006030.15631.2-5.2134414.83231.5361.36-12.5-3.9062512.109375
48.1607 13.72549021093.7510014.006030.19531.2-5.2134414.83231.5361.4-12.5-3.9062512.109375
48.23391 13.72549021062.58014.006030.15631.2-5.4069114.83231.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.9140625
48.30392 13.72549021031.2514013.859370.136532.4-4.826514.53831.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.9140625
48.37373 13.72549021093.758014.006030.11731.2-5.7938514.53831.5361.36-12.5-3.9062511.71875
48.44372 13.72549021062.59014.006030.136531.2-4.826515.08221.5361.32-12.5-3.9062511.71875
48.51271 13.7254902100015014.079360.15632.4-5.2134415.08221.5361.28-12.5-3.9062511.71875
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Old Sep 9, 2011, 01:21 PM
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Do you have your rear O2 sensor enabled?
Old Sep 9, 2011, 01:28 PM
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I checked to see that it was enabled and i believe that it is.

I do however have the old school anti fouler trick on there still from before the patches came out.
I never had an issue with them and no P0420 or whatever the code was. Still holding up with the test pipe as well.
Old Sep 9, 2011, 01:51 PM
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What type of intake setup do you have, hard pipe?
Try logging "air flow hz" at idle and see where you're at, maybe you're idling too high and out of the hz range for the ltft low to adjust...I can't remember what it is from factory, let me dig it up.
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