Injector scaling vs actual afr in close loop? Also does ve change closed loop fueling
Feb 6, 2013 | 08:09 PM
#61
However, my CL is driving me nuts. I'm changing my plugs now and lowered my latencies another 5% to see if that helps.
Feb 7, 2013 | 11:54 AM
#63
I also notice that the KPA goes down in neutral while revving to get the RPM VE per Schiedes instructions.
Feb 8, 2013 | 04:00 PM
#64
I got my Maf back on the car. I'll do some logging tomorrow as I'm headed to a meeting in Denver right now.
OT, I tried switching to 94171715 SD Rom before I went to the Maf and it wouldn't idle. It was around 21 AFR. I plugged in the MAF sensor and bam, it ran just fine. I'm assuming I did something wrong in the XML files and I really wasn't on an SD Rom. Can anyone clue me in? I was rushing too. I thought I knew this inside and out.
OT, I tried switching to 94171715 SD Rom before I went to the Maf and it wouldn't idle. It was around 21 AFR. I plugged in the MAF sensor and bam, it ran just fine. I'm assuming I did something wrong in the XML files and I really wasn't on an SD Rom. Can anyone clue me in? I was rushing too. I thought I knew this inside and out.
Feb 8, 2013 | 05:24 PM
#65
I'm not sure if this is the case or not but there are probably some significant maf scaling differences did you look into that?
Last edited by 211Ratsbud; Feb 8, 2013 at 05:41 PM.
Feb 8, 2013 | 09:32 PM
#66
Feb 9, 2013 | 09:13 AM
#68
Haha! I should have mentioned that since I knew you're on 3d. I may try 3d after I get the 94171715 working. I think the 3d will make more sense to me.
About to test the VE on Maf. I'm just curious what Jamie does with these numbers. I will try to make sense of it.
About to test the VE on Maf. I'm just curious what Jamie does with these numbers. I will try to make sense of it.
Feb 9, 2013 | 09:27 AM
#69
What map sensor are you using and what is the KPA formula you are using in evoscan? The biggest problem I have seen is improper KPA formulas bein used by some, which obviously throws off the data.
If you are using the LIVE map tracer on evoscan, you can see the average VE values occur while you drive. There are 2 things to remember though:
-The maps are using your LOAD as the top axis, not KPA so it's not a simple way to just swap over the info.
-If you decelerate with the throttle closed, compensations really will skew the numbers so try to log each area while at part throttle in the cruising areas.
Here is a tip, rename your MAP sensor KPA in evoscan so the 'Log Reference' has the word "LOAD" in it. Then you can select our KPA values in the LIVE Map Tracer as a LOAD option. For instance, change the Log Reference from something like 'JDMmapKPA' to 'JDMmapKPA_LOAD'. Close evoscan and then re-open and try it.
Evoscan already offers instances where it only logs data over a specified TPS (like 80%). It would be cool if anyone knew how we could add the option to have it ignore data BELOW a certain TPS while logging so it ignored the decel VE anomalies.
It would also be great if the next version of evoscan could allow us to select the VE table and allow us to choose KPA loggable items instead of LOAD.
-Jamie
If you are using the LIVE map tracer on evoscan, you can see the average VE values occur while you drive. There are 2 things to remember though:
-The maps are using your LOAD as the top axis, not KPA so it's not a simple way to just swap over the info.
-If you decelerate with the throttle closed, compensations really will skew the numbers so try to log each area while at part throttle in the cruising areas.
Here is a tip, rename your MAP sensor KPA in evoscan so the 'Log Reference' has the word "LOAD" in it. Then you can select our KPA values in the LIVE Map Tracer as a LOAD option. For instance, change the Log Reference from something like 'JDMmapKPA' to 'JDMmapKPA_LOAD'. Close evoscan and then re-open and try it.
Evoscan already offers instances where it only logs data over a specified TPS (like 80%). It would be cool if anyone knew how we could add the option to have it ignore data BELOW a certain TPS while logging so it ignored the decel VE anomalies.
It would also be great if the next version of evoscan could allow us to select the VE table and allow us to choose KPA loggable items instead of LOAD.
-Jamie
Feb 9, 2013 | 09:51 AM
#70
^ Got it. This makes sense for 3d tables. At least I'll have the data. So I assume for the 3d version I should try to get as much resolution as possible. For example, drive in 2500 in as many VE and Load cells as possible, then move on to the next RPM cell and repeat.
I'm using the Omni 4 bar and using 1.6667*x for the KPA settings.
I'm using the Omni 4 bar and using 1.6667*x for the KPA settings.
Feb 9, 2013 | 12:37 PM
#71
For that reason I'm using a elm/DMA rom waiting on a1.3 cable..
But I'm not sure if it would help the maf side of things
So I have yet to use it, but Im hoping that it helps tune things in nicely.
I have to make a decision to jump back to a USDM rom or not. 8858 vs 8859, the usdm is way more supported, but the 8858 has the SAS that I have been tinkering with. hopefully the ISCV stuff and the advanced fuel options get dug up for the 8858 that would pretty much make it equal.
But I'm not sure if it would help the maf side of things
So I have yet to use it, but Im hoping that it helps tune things in nicely.
I have to make a decision to jump back to a USDM rom or not. 8858 vs 8859, the usdm is way more supported, but the 8858 has the SAS that I have been tinkering with. hopefully the ISCV stuff and the advanced fuel options get dug up for the 8858 that would pretty much make it equal.
Last edited by 211Ratsbud; Feb 9, 2013 at 01:05 PM.
Feb 9, 2013 | 02:42 PM
#72
For that reason I'm using a elm/DMA rom waiting on a1.3 cable..
But I'm not sure if it would help the maf side of things
So I have yet to use it, but Im hoping that it helps tune things in nicely.
I have to make a decision to jump back to a USDM rom or not. 8858 vs 8859, the usdm is way more supported, but the 8858 has the SAS that I have been tinkering with. hopefully the ISCV stuff and the advanced fuel options get dug up for the 8858 that would pretty much make it equal.
But I'm not sure if it would help the maf side of things
So I have yet to use it, but Im hoping that it helps tune things in nicely.
I have to make a decision to jump back to a USDM rom or not. 8858 vs 8859, the usdm is way more supported, but the 8858 has the SAS that I have been tinkering with. hopefully the ISCV stuff and the advanced fuel options get dug up for the 8858 that would pretty much make it equal.
After logging it looks like I can plug in the VE settings versus the KPA settings in a 3d ve table. I think I'll try that tonight after I try the 2d sd rom with this info.
Feb 9, 2013 | 02:58 PM
#73
I think there is a patch program that does it for you, you would have to experiment with that yourself, as Donner was looking for me to test his 8858 rom out because... infact he had to reduce the size of the VE table to fit it in the live map settings. Works out good though. if you check his website, Im pretty sure theres a livemap/dma version there might be 9653 though.. Ill look for it in a bit
youre almost just as good off logging the heck of your maf map thats fully tuned and put that VE into a 3d rom. I was so sure thats what you were doing the whole time too! lol
youre almost just as good off logging the heck of your maf map thats fully tuned and put that VE into a 3d rom. I was so sure thats what you were doing the whole time too! lol
Last edited by 211Ratsbud; Feb 9, 2013 at 03:00 PM.
Feb 9, 2013 | 03:20 PM
#74
However, I'm stubborn and I have to get 2d working perfectly. If one tuner can do it, I can do it.
It's more like a handful of tuners can do it. What's wrong with me?
Feb 9, 2013 | 03:29 PM
#75
NOTE***updated OMNI 4 bar KPA after correcting math error*** 2/10/2013
Here are the formula's I use if anyone wants to try them. I also renamed them so you can choose them as a LOAD option on the LIVE MAp Tracer screen in evoscan:
JDM MAP KPA
OMNI 4 BAR MAP KPA
AEM or Zeitronix 5bar MAP KPA
Here are the VE formulas:
JDM MAP VE
OMNI 4 Bar MAP VE
AEM or Zeitronix 5 bar VE
-Jamie
Here are the formula's I use if anyone wants to try them. I also renamed them so you can choose them as a LOAD option on the LIVE MAp Tracer screen in evoscan:
JDM MAP KPA
Code:
<DataListItem DataLog="N" Color="" Display="JDM MAP kpa" LogReference="JDMMAPkpa_load" RequestID="38" Eval="0.19347*x*6.89475729" Unit="kpa" MetricEval="" MetricUnit="" ResponseBytes="1" GaugeMin="0" GaugeMax="350" ChartMin="0" ChartMax="350" ScalingFactor="1" Notes="" Priority="1" Visible="False" LogHide="false" />
Code:
<DataListItem DataLog="N" Color="" Display="OMNI 4 bar kPA" LogReference="OMNI4barKPA_load" RequestID="38" Eval="(x/255+0.00842)/0.002421" Unit="kpa" MetricEval="" MetricUnit="" ResponseBytes="1" GaugeMin="0" GaugeMax="400" ChartMin="0" ChartMax="400" ScalingFactor="1" Notes="" Priority="1" Visible="False" LogHide="false" />
Code:
<DataListItem DataLog="N" Color="" Display="AEM 5 bar kPa" LogReference="AEM5barKPA_load" RequestID="38" Eval="(x*0.367647-9.375)*6.89475729" Unit="kPa" MetricEval="" MetricUnit="" ResponseBytes="1" GaugeMin="0" GaugeMax="500" ChartMin="0" ChartMax="500" ScalingFactor="1" Notes="" Priority="1" PriorityOffset="0" LogHide="false" Visible="False" />
Here are the VE formulas:
JDM MAP VE
Code:
<DataListItem DataLog="N" Color="" Display="VE JDM 3 Bar" LogReference="VE_JDM3bar" RequestID="00" Eval="([load1B]/[JDMMAPkpa])*100" Unit="%" MetricEval="" MetricUnit="" ResponseBytes="1" GaugeMin="0" GaugeMax="255" ChartMin="0" ChartMax="255" ScalingFactor="1" Notes="" Priority="1" PriorityOffset="0" LogHide="false" Visible="False" />
Code:
<DataListItem DataLog="N" Color="" Display="VE Omni 4 Bar" LogReference="VE_OMNI4bar" RequestID="00" Eval="([load1B]/[OMNI4barKPA_load])*100" Unit="%" MetricEval="" MetricUnit="" ResponseBytes="1" GaugeMin="0" GaugeMax="150" ChartMin="0" ChartMax="150" ScalingFactor="1" Notes="" Priority="1" PriorityOffset="0" LogHide="false" Visible="False" />
Code:
<DataListItem DataLog="N" Color="" Display="VE AEM 5 bar" LogReference="VE_AEM_5_bar" RequestID="x" Eval="([load1B]/[AEM5barKPA_load])*100" Unit="%" MetricEval="" MetricUnit="" ResponseBytes="1" GaugeMin="0" GaugeMax="130" ChartMin="0" ChartMax="130" ScalingFactor="2" Notes="" Priority="1" PriorityOffset="0" LogHide="false" Visible="False" />
-Jamie
Last edited by Dynotech Tuning; Feb 10, 2013 at 12:46 AM.