Intake Manifold Test
Jan 29, 2009, 05:53 PM
#76
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dan, you are getting on my nerves. I have never been caught in a lie as I don't lie. Now you, DSSA and ineedof go back over to NABR and talk about how you guys all hate Buschur there.
Have you ever heard of Keith Wilson? How do you think they came up with the intake for the EVO? Wait, have you ever heard of Mitsubishi? How do you think they came up with the intake? A bunch of monkeys and a piece of toilet paper and crayon? You don't think they have fluid modeling programs and engineers there?
Have you ever heard of Keith Wilson? How do you think they came up with the intake for the EVO? Wait, have you ever heard of Mitsubishi? How do you think they came up with the intake? A bunch of monkeys and a piece of toilet paper and crayon? You don't think they have fluid modeling programs and engineers there?
Hell yes I know who Keith is. I also know who you are thanks to the 15 ****ing line signature. Full of yourself much?
You want to fall back on the engineering of Mitsubishi? If stock parts are so great why aren't you welding and grinding stock cams? Mitsubishi, the same company that denied crankwalk. I can see why you are so in love with the brand now, denial and deception.
Jan 29, 2009, 06:07 PM
#78
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Why is there so much need to discussion? Big Al already admitted that the Wilson manifold lost power when he was on the phone with Paul.
If someone is willing to lie about one manifold what is going to keep them from lieing about the next.
If someone is willing to lie about one manifold what is going to keep them from lieing about the next.
Jan 29, 2009, 06:55 PM
#80
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What a great world we live in when people call you and tape your conversation without your premision
Last edited by DynoFlash; Jan 29, 2009 at 07:09 PM.
Jan 29, 2009, 07:01 PM
#81
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Dave, I have some valid comments. Runner length and plenum shape as well as volume need to be altered to maximize gains in the rpm ranges people need when building drag motors. Spending $1500 while being contained by the basic geometry of the stock intake is, to me, insaine. For a couple hundred you can get 90% of the gains by extrude honing a stock intake. Spending $1500 is just an exercise in turd polishing. Thats one of the worst bang for the buck purchases in the evo market. Not to mention that many companies are now offering custom cast pieces that don't give any thing up down low and kick the wilsons butt up top. They are doing all this and doing it for $500 less than you can.
Furthermore we all know your "street" RS is light. I'm convinced that is one of the reasons you don't want to cage it. You know that your not making the power to get a heavy car down the track and as such you can't afford the weight of the safety equipment.
Furthermore we all know your "street" RS is light. I'm convinced that is one of the reasons you don't want to cage it. You know that your not making the power to get a heavy car down the track and as such you can't afford the weight of the safety equipment.
Listen Cuz
I am not a big fan of the Wilson Manifold myself however, your comments defy logic as Mike from AWD went 8's in his street car with the unit and Buschur went 9.01 with it on his car
No one else has come to duplicating those kind of results or performance in any street evo
If you want to talk trash then lets see you run those kind of times - otherwise just flap your lips
To me going 8 second or close to it on a full weight street car requires more than some "turd" polishing
Clearly it seems you are just a key board thug with a lot of hate and no results to back you up
Al
Last edited by DynoFlash; Jan 29, 2009 at 07:10 PM.
Jan 30, 2009, 06:56 AM
#85
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I think this shows why the Wilson V2 works so well. Wilson Manifolds doesn't just throw a die grinder in someone's hands that just learned what a die grinder is, then expect them to get results. Porting the stock manifold is an art and not just anyone can do it. The V2 has been on the dyno and proven it's results not just in dyno numbers, but track numbers. If a recommendation of staying with the stock manifold was good for overall performance reasons, imagine the difference if it's been modified by professionals who do it for a living.
Good read.
Good read.
The best part of his post is the part highlighted in bold. I see alot of hate in here. Everybody has a choice as to what manifold they can buy and I'm sure a majority of the manifolds on the market will perform at the track. Some out perform others, some perform better at different areas of the curve, but in the end most of them perform to a point. It's YOU the consumer who makes the decision on who you want to support.
I'll start off by saying I do buy Buschur parts for a reason. I've had a good relationship with Dave over the last 6-7 years. Quick little run down on Dave, he is harsh, he gets to the point, and he will tell you like it is whether you want to hear it or not. Hate him or love him, he will always be Dave. Personally, I like the fact he is a straight shooter. He is also charactor at times!
Now, on with the manifolds. I have personally seen the "old Magnus" manifold make crappy power at a shop here in Atlanta. It was switched out for an AMS manifold that outperformed it in every aspect, as it should. The original AMS manifold is far superior to the old Magnus design as far as I'm concerned and I think most people would agree with me on that.
The new Magnus cast piece looks great and from what I've read from testing so far has been performing very well. Looks like Marco has stepped up his game and come out with a very nice piece.
I am personally running the Wilson V2 manifold in my car now and my car is making more power than it ever has, but then again I chalk that up to Dave being a tuning Genuis. I had the AMS manifold on my car before and it worked very well and the design looked ****. It performed well so I was happy and I am willing to spend money where I can gain performance.
Now that I'm running the Wilson V2 I'm even happier. I like the V2 because not only does it perform, but it retains the STOCK look. That is also something that is important to some people.
I agree with what was previously said and someone independant needs to step up to the plate and run back to back test with these manifolds, post the results, and everybody get on with their lives. This company doing the testing shouldn't have anything to gain from the situation.
Also, this argueing nonsense isn't good for the community as a whole.
Last edited by sblvro; Jan 30, 2009 at 08:24 AM.
Jan 30, 2009, 07:12 AM
#86
Someone send me a Wilson v2 and I'll test it next week against some other stock and modified stock intake manifolds. I have zero interest in putting a sheet metal or aftermarket cast intake manifold on my car that doesn't fit exactly like stock though.
Last edited by Kracka; Jan 30, 2009 at 07:19 AM.
Jan 30, 2009, 08:15 AM
#87
Why don't you just buy one and then sell it on. I mean seriously you'd probably only lose a few hundred bucks and if you are in the Evo tuning game that is chump change.
Jan 30, 2009, 08:35 AM
#88
I was just half-jokingly throwing it out as an offer to test (and return) it since its being asked for by some people. I have no interest in running one on my personal car due to the cost, but I'm more than willing to take a few hours out of my day to get the manifold installed and the car strapped down on the dyno for some "unbiased" testing.
Last edited by Kracka; Jan 30, 2009 at 08:43 AM.
Jan 30, 2009, 08:44 AM
#89
I would just like to clarify something about my initial test offer.
We sell parts, we do not make parts. We sell what makes power and what has been proven. Thus far the Magnus Cast Intake has proven itself time and again. However if there were another product that made power (V2, AMS F1, my Grandmama's Socks) we'd sell that too. Too say I or EnglishRacing as a whole are biased is pretty silly. I dont sell what doesnt work. For instance, I dont sell BC stuff because I havent ever seen power from the cams, and everything else seems less than perfect.
I will never stop selling Magnus Intakes because they are proven and have been proven in mind for a long time. If they hadnt been proven I would have said "Hey it made 4whp more than thats what it did", but the point is I wouldnt have held back. Perhaps the V2 or V2.3 is another example of many paths to the same destination. I wont know until I test one, but if its not going to be offered in a dual rail I wont personally need one.
cliffs-Completely Unbiased in testing.
We sell parts, we do not make parts. We sell what makes power and what has been proven. Thus far the Magnus Cast Intake has proven itself time and again. However if there were another product that made power (V2, AMS F1, my Grandmama's Socks) we'd sell that too. Too say I or EnglishRacing as a whole are biased is pretty silly. I dont sell what doesnt work. For instance, I dont sell BC stuff because I havent ever seen power from the cams, and everything else seems less than perfect.
I will never stop selling Magnus Intakes because they are proven and have been proven in mind for a long time. If they hadnt been proven I would have said "Hey it made 4whp more than thats what it did", but the point is I wouldnt have held back. Perhaps the V2 or V2.3 is another example of many paths to the same destination. I wont know until I test one, but if its not going to be offered in a dual rail I wont personally need one.
cliffs-Completely Unbiased in testing.
Jan 30, 2009, 08:55 AM
#90
I wasn't going to post, but with all this poo slinging I have to say a couple things.
If anyone actually read the old thread where I tested the Magnus manifolds everyone would have seen where I offered to test the V2 if anyone was willing to part with theirs for a little while. I offered to pay for round trip shipping and insurance and a couple people offered to send me one but those offers turned out to be bluffs.
Since our shop was founded on cylinder head porting we decided to make our own version of the V2 to test. However, because of the delays in trying to arrange for other members V2 intake manifolds to be sent in for testing and the time it took for us to design our own, mid-December was upon us and the temperature was so drastically colder that would truly skew the testing
Until the weather get back up to the high 40's / low 50's I won't finish the testing on that car that we still have left to do. I'll throw the offer out there one more time...IF ANYONE WANTS TO SEND THEIR WILSON V2 IN, I WILL TEST IT ON THAT SAME CAR WITHOUT BIAS AND POST UP THE RESULTS FOR ALL TO SEE!
Our testing is as consistent as time will allow. I won't test a car in 80deg ambient temps and then in 20deg ambient temps and compare the two graphs as if it is absolute. Even if the car was in the same format for both tests it would yield different results because of the drastic changes in weather. Only N/A cars yield more repeatable results as they aren't influenced by amplified pressure and air density. Since turbocharged vehicles can exceed atmospheric pressure so many more factors influence output. In order to have true comparable test results consistency should be administered and attention to detail must be paid.
In no way do I care about peoples personal tiffs with each other! What I do care about is showing what works and what doesn't so customers can see past the hype and bull****! So many parts exist in our market that are the equivalent to what I regularly do three times a day on the toilet. The problem is customers think if it exists it must work or it looks the same, but is a hundred dollars cheaper so I'll buy the cheaper one. Don't even get me started on Ebay!
We knew the old Magnus manifold would make more power up top than the OE manifold. If it didn't then it would go against so many other tests I have seen on airflow and there would be a ton of manifolds in existence that would have yielded similar discerning results as they are built along the same physical principals. Testing the old Magnus manifold just solidified what we already knew, but so many seemed to forget.
Again...I'll throw the offer out there one more time...IF ANYONE WANTS TO SEND THEIR WILSON V2 IN, I WILL TEST IT ON THAT SAME CAR WITHOUT BIAS AND POST UP THE RESULTS FOR ALL TO SEE! Contact me and we can work out the details.
Thanks for your time.
If anyone actually read the old thread where I tested the Magnus manifolds everyone would have seen where I offered to test the V2 if anyone was willing to part with theirs for a little while. I offered to pay for round trip shipping and insurance and a couple people offered to send me one but those offers turned out to be bluffs.
Since our shop was founded on cylinder head porting we decided to make our own version of the V2 to test. However, because of the delays in trying to arrange for other members V2 intake manifolds to be sent in for testing and the time it took for us to design our own, mid-December was upon us and the temperature was so drastically colder that would truly skew the testing
Until the weather get back up to the high 40's / low 50's I won't finish the testing on that car that we still have left to do. I'll throw the offer out there one more time...IF ANYONE WANTS TO SEND THEIR WILSON V2 IN, I WILL TEST IT ON THAT SAME CAR WITHOUT BIAS AND POST UP THE RESULTS FOR ALL TO SEE!
Our testing is as consistent as time will allow. I won't test a car in 80deg ambient temps and then in 20deg ambient temps and compare the two graphs as if it is absolute. Even if the car was in the same format for both tests it would yield different results because of the drastic changes in weather. Only N/A cars yield more repeatable results as they aren't influenced by amplified pressure and air density. Since turbocharged vehicles can exceed atmospheric pressure so many more factors influence output. In order to have true comparable test results consistency should be administered and attention to detail must be paid.
In no way do I care about peoples personal tiffs with each other! What I do care about is showing what works and what doesn't so customers can see past the hype and bull****! So many parts exist in our market that are the equivalent to what I regularly do three times a day on the toilet. The problem is customers think if it exists it must work or it looks the same, but is a hundred dollars cheaper so I'll buy the cheaper one. Don't even get me started on Ebay!
We knew the old Magnus manifold would make more power up top than the OE manifold. If it didn't then it would go against so many other tests I have seen on airflow and there would be a ton of manifolds in existence that would have yielded similar discerning results as they are built along the same physical principals. Testing the old Magnus manifold just solidified what we already knew, but so many seemed to forget.
Again...I'll throw the offer out there one more time...IF ANYONE WANTS TO SEND THEIR WILSON V2 IN, I WILL TEST IT ON THAT SAME CAR WITHOUT BIAS AND POST UP THE RESULTS FOR ALL TO SEE! Contact me and we can work out the details.
Thanks for your time.