Not all Evo's will achieve great performance without the right combination of parts!
Jul 14, 2009, 10:58 AM
#1
Not all Evo's will achieve great performance without the right combination of parts!
Anthony came to us with his Evo already put together. New to the Southeast in Georgia, he made the 5 hour trip down to our facility to have his concoction of performance parts put to the test and see how they performed.
From what I could see, his mods consisted of PTE 850cc injectors, FPRed turbo, HKS cams, adjustible gears, ebay exhaust manifold, gates timing belt kit, FP silicone intake pipe, weaponR intake filter, and snow performance water/meth injection kit.
Anthony was using the pink boost juice premixed fluid for injection. It consists of a reported 50% methanol content.
Upon tuning of the car, it became evident that the car was never really boosted very high. As soon as we started to turn up the wick, couplers and clamps started flying off. We replaced all the rigged up couplers and clamps with high quality multilayer silicone couplers and JCS HiGrip clamps from the UK. The car stayed together after this was addressed.
Soon after getting the car to hold the boost in the pipes, we reached 418whp on 93 octane through the 850cc injectors. Next up was the introduction of the mixed fluid injection. First we started off turning it on and determining what the impact was on the AFR. It did not seem to change much over the pump gas alone so we removed the snow jet and installed one of the jets from our TTP-Engineering Meth Injection kit. This improved injection flow and reduced the air fuel ratios to a point where we knew it was working.
We pushed the 92,000mi old engine as far as it would allow on the pisswater boost juice mix of fluid yet it didn't seem to make as much power as many of our other EvoRed cars. We determined that the exhaust manifold from ebay posed a substantial backpressure restriction in the system. We settled at about 29psi peak on the injection tune and left it there.
Not all Evo's are created equal. Each owner will select certain parts that may or may not work well together. Some look nice but don't perform. Some perform, but don't look nice. Some Look nice, are cheap and don't perform. An Evo is a sum of its parts and if care is not taken to meticulously modify them in an efficient manner, then performance will suffer.
In this case, we felt that the weaponR intake, the ebay exhaust manifold and the snow performance 50/50 kit were all contributors to performance that fell short of what we like to see out of this turbo.
Here are the results of pumpgas and 50/50 injection overlayed:
Jul 14, 2009, 11:48 AM
#2
Very interesting and informative.
You mention that intake, exhaust manifold and the meth kit were sub par. As a tuner/vendor, what would your suggestion be in place of this modifications? It appears the owner was trying to "help" the engine breathe better, but obviously fell short. Are the ideas valid however (intake/exhaust manifold) and if so, it appears that brand names play a bigger part (ebay manifold vs say, Buschur). Thoughts?
You mention that intake, exhaust manifold and the meth kit were sub par. As a tuner/vendor, what would your suggestion be in place of this modifications? It appears the owner was trying to "help" the engine breathe better, but obviously fell short. Are the ideas valid however (intake/exhaust manifold) and if so, it appears that brand names play a bigger part (ebay manifold vs say, Buschur). Thoughts?
Jul 14, 2009, 03:59 PM
#6
This is absolutely correct....a little on the harsh side, but correct.
Before I deployed to Afganistan, I dropped the Evo off at a local motorsports shop to have it modified and ready to go for when I got back. I had a friend of mine check up on it periodically to ensure everything was going ok. I get back, pay the tab and go about my life. Shortly after, Uncle Sam moves me and the fam to the South where I really started to get into autoX and track events. So I order the fpred, have it installed along with the meth kit and set up an appointment to take it down to TTP for a tune.
Now unlike the last few times I dropped my car off at a local motorsports shop without asking for opinions, I asked around the local evo forum to see who everyone recommended (www.EvoATL.com) A lot of shops were mentioned...TopSpeed, BattleGrounds, Mellon Tuning, Forged Performance...all had pretty good reputations. But TTP seemed to be the shop that outshined the rest when it came specifically to the Evo.
Knowing that a lot of the stuff that had previously been installed on the car would likely effect the outcome of my tune, I specifically informed Scott at TTP to do whatever is necessary to ensure the tune goes well, even if new parts need to be installed. I described to him, in detail, the previous history of the car, its previous installer errors and the condition that its in. I felt very comfortable leaving the shop knowing he would do what needed to be done.
Later that evening, Scott calls me up and says everything is ready to go. I was extremely impressed that he took time out of his own personal life to finish up the car. He stayed almost 3 hours past closing and even had his lady waiting in the lobby while he explained everything he had done and the parts he had replaced. He was blunt but not nearly as harsh which is fine. Coming from a military background, I demand nothing less.
All in all, he replaced an IC coupler, my Turbosmart EBC with a Forge MBC (was unfamiliar with the EBC and the MBC was the easiest method for him to tune), graciously attempted to repair my Prosport oil temp gauge which unfortunately I still had to replace, changed the nozzle on the meth kit and fixed the issue with the oil dipstick poppin out above 26psi. Not sure why he didnt replace the exhaust manifold, the intake filter or even the meth kit but I'm certain time played a role in that so I'm grateful nonetheless.
TTP's service was great and I'll be heading back for an engine build in a few months. My only regret is that I didn't find them sooner. Thanks again, Scott.
-Anthony
Before I deployed to Afganistan, I dropped the Evo off at a local motorsports shop to have it modified and ready to go for when I got back. I had a friend of mine check up on it periodically to ensure everything was going ok. I get back, pay the tab and go about my life. Shortly after, Uncle Sam moves me and the fam to the South where I really started to get into autoX and track events. So I order the fpred, have it installed along with the meth kit and set up an appointment to take it down to TTP for a tune.
Now unlike the last few times I dropped my car off at a local motorsports shop without asking for opinions, I asked around the local evo forum to see who everyone recommended (www.EvoATL.com) A lot of shops were mentioned...TopSpeed, BattleGrounds, Mellon Tuning, Forged Performance...all had pretty good reputations. But TTP seemed to be the shop that outshined the rest when it came specifically to the Evo.
Knowing that a lot of the stuff that had previously been installed on the car would likely effect the outcome of my tune, I specifically informed Scott at TTP to do whatever is necessary to ensure the tune goes well, even if new parts need to be installed. I described to him, in detail, the previous history of the car, its previous installer errors and the condition that its in. I felt very comfortable leaving the shop knowing he would do what needed to be done.
Later that evening, Scott calls me up and says everything is ready to go. I was extremely impressed that he took time out of his own personal life to finish up the car. He stayed almost 3 hours past closing and even had his lady waiting in the lobby while he explained everything he had done and the parts he had replaced. He was blunt but not nearly as harsh which is fine. Coming from a military background, I demand nothing less.
All in all, he replaced an IC coupler, my Turbosmart EBC with a Forge MBC (was unfamiliar with the EBC and the MBC was the easiest method for him to tune), graciously attempted to repair my Prosport oil temp gauge which unfortunately I still had to replace, changed the nozzle on the meth kit and fixed the issue with the oil dipstick poppin out above 26psi. Not sure why he didnt replace the exhaust manifold, the intake filter or even the meth kit but I'm certain time played a role in that so I'm grateful nonetheless.
TTP's service was great and I'll be heading back for an engine build in a few months. My only regret is that I didn't find them sooner. Thanks again, Scott.
-Anthony
Jul 14, 2009, 04:15 PM
#7
Very interesting and informative.
You mention that intake, exhaust manifold and the meth kit were sub par. As a tuner/vendor, what would your suggestion be in place of this modifications? It appears the owner was trying to "help" the engine breathe better, but obviously fell short. Are the ideas valid however (intake/exhaust manifold) and if so, it appears that brand names play a bigger part (ebay manifold vs say, Buschur). Thoughts?
You mention that intake, exhaust manifold and the meth kit were sub par. As a tuner/vendor, what would your suggestion be in place of this modifications? It appears the owner was trying to "help" the engine breathe better, but obviously fell short. Are the ideas valid however (intake/exhaust manifold) and if so, it appears that brand names play a bigger part (ebay manifold vs say, Buschur). Thoughts?
We find the oiled weaponR intake to be of poor design and our opinion is that it is a restriction in the intake.
The ebay manifold looked subpar compared to an ebay manifold.
The exhaust runners looked smaller than stock manifold internal diameter. There is no question in my mind that stock manifold would have performed better.If you really knew me, you would know that we are not brand ******. Megan racing has been one of my favorite product lines over the years. It has a great value and 90% of their products perform excellent.
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Jul 14, 2009, 04:31 PM
#8
This is absolutely correct....a little on the harsh side, but correct.
Before I deployed to Afganistan, I dropped the Evo off at a local motorsports shop to have it modified and ready to go for when I got back. I had a friend of mine check up on it periodically to ensure everything was going ok. I get back, pay the tab and go about my life. Shortly after, Uncle Sam moves me and the fam to the South where I really started to get into autoX and track events. So I order the fpred, have it installed along with the meth kit and set up an appointment to take it down to TTP for a tune.
Now unlike the last few times I dropped my car off at a local motorsports shop without asking for opinions, I asked around the local evo forum to see who everyone recommended (www.EvoATL.com) A lot of shops were mentioned...TopSpeed, BattleGrounds, Mellon Tuning, Forged Performance...all had pretty good reputations. But TTP seemed to be the shop that outshined the rest when it came specifically to the Evo.
Knowing that a lot of the stuff that had previously been installed on the car would likely effect the outcome of my tune, I specifically informed Scott at TTP to do whatever is necessary to ensure the tune goes well, even if new parts need to be installed. I described to him, in detail, the previous history of the car, its previous installer errors and the condition that its in. I felt very comfortable leaving the shop knowing he would do what needed to be done.
Later that evening, Scott calls me up and says everything is ready to go. I was extremely impressed that he took time out of his own personal life to finish up the car. He stayed almost 3 hours past closing and even had his lady waiting in the lobby while he explained everything he had done and the parts he had replaced. He was blunt but not nearly as harsh which is fine. Coming from a military background, I demand nothing less.
All in all, he replaced an IC coupler, my Turbosmart EBC with a Forge MBC (was unfamiliar with the EBC and the MBC was the easiest method for him to tune), graciously attempted to repair my Prosport oil temp gauge which unfortunately I still had to replace, changed the nozzle on the meth kit and fixed the issue with the oil dipstick poppin out above 26psi. Not sure why he didnt replace the exhaust manifold, the intake filter or even the meth kit but I'm certain time played a role in that so I'm grateful nonetheless.
TTP's service was great and I'll be heading back for an engine build in a few months. My only regret is that I didn't find them sooner. Thanks again, Scott.
-Anthony
Before I deployed to Afganistan, I dropped the Evo off at a local motorsports shop to have it modified and ready to go for when I got back. I had a friend of mine check up on it periodically to ensure everything was going ok. I get back, pay the tab and go about my life. Shortly after, Uncle Sam moves me and the fam to the South where I really started to get into autoX and track events. So I order the fpred, have it installed along with the meth kit and set up an appointment to take it down to TTP for a tune.
Now unlike the last few times I dropped my car off at a local motorsports shop without asking for opinions, I asked around the local evo forum to see who everyone recommended (www.EvoATL.com) A lot of shops were mentioned...TopSpeed, BattleGrounds, Mellon Tuning, Forged Performance...all had pretty good reputations. But TTP seemed to be the shop that outshined the rest when it came specifically to the Evo.
Knowing that a lot of the stuff that had previously been installed on the car would likely effect the outcome of my tune, I specifically informed Scott at TTP to do whatever is necessary to ensure the tune goes well, even if new parts need to be installed. I described to him, in detail, the previous history of the car, its previous installer errors and the condition that its in. I felt very comfortable leaving the shop knowing he would do what needed to be done.
Later that evening, Scott calls me up and says everything is ready to go. I was extremely impressed that he took time out of his own personal life to finish up the car. He stayed almost 3 hours past closing and even had his lady waiting in the lobby while he explained everything he had done and the parts he had replaced. He was blunt but not nearly as harsh which is fine. Coming from a military background, I demand nothing less.
All in all, he replaced an IC coupler, my Turbosmart EBC with a Forge MBC (was unfamiliar with the EBC and the MBC was the easiest method for him to tune), graciously attempted to repair my Prosport oil temp gauge which unfortunately I still had to replace, changed the nozzle on the meth kit and fixed the issue with the oil dipstick poppin out above 26psi. Not sure why he didnt replace the exhaust manifold, the intake filter or even the meth kit but I'm certain time played a role in that so I'm grateful nonetheless.
TTP's service was great and I'll be heading back for an engine build in a few months. My only regret is that I didn't find them sooner. Thanks again, Scott.
-Anthony
Its hard to take someone literally when they say, fix it it needs to be fixed without a dollar value. Where you might mean within $1500, get it running right, might mean $150 to someone else that says the same thing.
Yes time was a constraint, however here is another reason your manifold could not be removed:
Anyhow, we would enjoy continuing to work with the car and bringing it to the level it should be. If you have the ability to stick with us, we will iron out the rest of the shortcomings and get you back on track.
Jul 14, 2009, 04:59 PM
#9
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WTF^ what are you reading?
I didnt see anything wrong with that post?
He simply stated that there were ****ty parts on the car. and that is why it made the power. Who cares?
Scott is blunt, and to the point. No run around. Its nothing to be bothered about
I didnt see anything wrong with that post?
He simply stated that there were ****ty parts on the car. and that is why it made the power. Who cares?
Scott is blunt, and to the point. No run around. Its nothing to be bothered about
Last edited by MattsT67; Jul 14, 2009 at 05:01 PM.
Jul 14, 2009, 05:02 PM
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Modding cars is a learning experience for most. If everyone went with staged upgrades and never did their own thing, where would we be? I say live and learn.
Jul 14, 2009, 05:15 PM
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There is a much better way to say that then saying everything negative. It's all about tact. So what if he didnt build his evo the most efficient way? Why would you specifically call him out on a national evo forum? How is that NOT disrespectful?
If his point is to not use cheap parts, a seperate forum not detailing specific customer information should have been in order.
Even if you dont get that impression, I do. And therefore I would never use TTP. Do I really want to go there and end up on my own "dont ever do this" post?
If his point is to not use cheap parts, a seperate forum not detailing specific customer information should have been in order.
Even if you dont get that impression, I do. And therefore I would never use TTP. Do I really want to go there and end up on my own "dont ever do this" post?
Last edited by Silentbob812; Jul 14, 2009 at 05:21 PM.
Jul 14, 2009, 05:32 PM
#15
There is a much better way to say that then saying everything negative. It's all about tact. So what if he didnt build his evo the most efficient way? Why would you specifically call him out on a national evo forum? How is that NOT disrespectful?
If his point is to not use cheap parts, a seperate forum not detailing specific customer information should have been in order.
Even if you dont get that impression, I do. And therefore I would never use TTP. Do I really want to go there and end up on my own "dont ever do this" post?
If his point is to not use cheap parts, a seperate forum not detailing specific customer information should have been in order.
Even if you dont get that impression, I do. And therefore I would never use TTP. Do I really want to go there and end up on my own "dont ever do this" post?