Turbo01s2k

iTrader: (37)

David did show the difference in spool was 300rpms from the black the hta86. Fine, the hta86 had a 2.1 as opposed to the 2.0 of the black. Same motor, would have prob changed that to 450rpms of spool, maybe 500. Fine. Look at the difference in power, and peak boost level needed to achieve that power. The black used 43 psi to make 600 wheel, and 500torque. While the badbish took almost 7psi less, to make almost 100hp more, and 61 more torque. So in the end, less boost, more power, 300rpms of spool in this comparison. Give the black the same motor, and i doubt you would see much difference in peak power compared to boost level.

Dont get me wrong, the black is a nice upgrade, makes some goood power when setup properly(as he just showed...4300rpms and 600wheel out of a stock has gotta be fun) but it for what it does, it just doesnt do it for me.

tscompusa2

iTrader: (22)

well your current setup shouldn't do it for you then considering its just a laggier fp black. In my opinion it takes to much boost to make over 600+ on the fp black... where as I would be more happy with the hta86, but its pretty laggy and even if i had one on my 2.3 i would be limited to how high i rev if i wanted to be safe... so i had to choose something inbetween and chose the fp black for now. so far im pleased with what it does, but i dont think i would get it again if it takes a crap.. i would most likely switch to a custom 6262 setup. theres just something about the stock frame setups that are to restrictive at the turbine housing, (which i know yours is not stock frame) ---- it just seems smarter/safer to go with bigger then smaller with 2x more boost and maxing the turbo. Wasn't a handful of records broken with the HTA86... It seems the HTA86 is king when it comes to the bigger faster spooling turbos.

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

its not very bright to quote David shows difference to be only 300rpm. He has shown in another thread the black hitting a full 1000rpm faster than an equally equipped HTA 3582 car. its a bad idea to compare turbo spool from two different cars. The black inserted into davids RS would likely see 400tq 1000rpm sooner than his current turbo.

Chris aka ryuevoix made 580tq at 4090rpm just recently on his unopened stock 2.0 block. that torque is acheiched 1200rpm later in davids RS. dont kid yourself. the black spools WAY faster that tubular header setups. IMHO is well worth the power drop up top. 1200rpm earlier power is HUGE in any car.

How many times now have you seen david quote he loves his project white build above any other? stupid power may look fun on a dyno graph. but on the road fast hard hitting power rules and makes for a much more enjoyable ride,

R/TErnie

iTrader: (32)

sounds like an excuse from an all motor fiend. "at least I have response."

haha whatever.

94AWDcoupe

iTrader: (125)

sound like you should go back to your "my car hasnt run in six months, but will be fast one day" thread.

David Buschur

iTrader: (53)

I'm a bit behind.

First, compression on each of these engines is about 10:1, very close to that on each one.

The Red with the 2.3 has been the most fun to drive/responsive and my favorite EVO, Project White to be exact.

The Black makes great power, about 40 whp over the Red from what I've seen. Personally, I like the Red the best of all stock framed EVO8-9 turbos I have tried.

Project White with the Red ran a best of 10.38 at 138 mph, at UNDER 35 psi and was the heaviest of all these cars.

The Black ran a best of 10.1 last year and a best of 140.xx mph so far this year.

My car has gone 9.04 at 159.64 and is right at 2950, that was also run at about 650 whp in 3rd gear.

David Buschur

iTrader: (53)

It's tough for me to get myself to post on EVOm at all anymore.............the response above was from page 1, now I am done reading up to here.

First, all three of these cars were "built". Same intercoolers, same compression, same exhausts, i/c pipes, tuner etc.

The comparison is nothing more than a comparison.

The stroker will spool ANY turbo faster, by a substantial amount. The MIVEC helps with low end and can be substantial. The 2.1 helps with spool and the car runs an electric water pump, the lightest brakes, the lightest clutch/flywheel, the lightest drive shaft.

This isn't a dyno test of three turbos, it is simply a post I thought people might like to see.

My RS, for the power it makes and the times it runs, has the best response/power band of any similar sized turbo EVO I have ever seen/driven or dyno'd.

I see these 2.4 liter, twin scroll cars being built and the numbers that are posted........cough-cough, they don't run crap at the track, not impressed and I don't bother even following the threads. I know how my car drives and feels on the HTA86 and it's better than any other EVO capable of 9.0's I've experienced.

If I could only have ONE EVO and could only build it ONE time and then had to leave it alone, I'd build Project White all over again, MAYBE I'd use the Haltech on it but other than that I'd not change anything.

Turbo01s2k

iTrader: (37)

What? Your post is very confusing. Are you argueing that the black is superior to the hta86, or agreeing with what i said about it? Because in most of your post, you are not giving credit to the black, but in your opening sentence your knocking on my hta setup...

tscompusa2

iTrader: (22)

I was just saying that the black is quicker spooling then your current setup. I am agreeing that the hta86 is overall a better setup if you have the displacement to spool it up quicker...... I was also saying I would take a 6262 or similar setup over a FP black again only because the power we both seem to be hunting for are basically maxing the black out, so why go with a turbo you have to max out when there are other larger frame available that will be more then happy to give you your goal and not be maxing out and last longer....

sorry if i confused you. I am not knocking your setup, i was just comparing spoolup charactoristics... you have one of the better setups for a evo imo.

epooh1

DB, what you say about how you feel about Project White speaks volumes. Thanks for sharing the dyno pic as it helps show why and reminds me why I'm going through my stroking 'evolution'.

BIGJEFF

iTrader: (7)

Great graphs Thanks for posting them David.

blnddrtbkeqt

iTrader: (1)

I think i'd be overwhelmingly happy with any of those dyno numbers

R/TErnie

iTrader: (32)

Like I just took 3rd in a Time Attack Series at Pacific Raceway? Yeah. Just because I don't post things here doesn't mean I'm not working

I'm still waiting on connecting rods Keep hatin' beyotch!

evowario

iTrader: (2)

fp red FTW

victoryred

iTrader: (-1)

^+1 to that. Aftet coming back and readind this thread it has great info. Thank you dave for always sharing your info with the community.

For the people complaining about the black and red comparison stop bickering like dave said this was never suppose to be a comparison but just interesting data he found from his logs. Imo the red is one of the best turrbos out. Fp does a great jos and hope they continue innovating new products for all of us.