Buschur Racing, FP Red/FP Black/HTA86 comparo of sorts
Jun 2, 2010, 10:02 AM
#1
Buschur Racing, FP Red/FP Black/HTA86 comparo of sorts
We just finished up our Sport Compact National race and with it we finished up another dyno day.
This got me to thinking about a few cars that were on the dyno and this morning I went back to look at some comparison runs. All of the runs were done in 4th gear, which for my car was a first in a few years and what got me thinking of comparing these cars.
Here are some basic details of each car on the graph I am posting.
#1, Project White, BR2.3/BR Stg 3 head, FP Red, E85 fuel, 1200cc injectors, BR double pumper, Jun 272 cams, BR 3" turbo back, stock ECU, 32 psi peak boost, BR Race FMIC, BR stock ported intake/BR 65 mm tb.
#2, Chris's car, BR 2l iter/BR Stg 3 head, FP Black, E98 fuel, ID2000's, BR double pumper, FP 5R cams, BR 3" turbo back, AEM EMS, 43 psi peak boost, BR Race FMIC, BR stock ported intake/BR 65 mm tb.
#3, Bad Bish, BR 2.1 liter, BR Stg 3 head, HTA86, E98 fuel, ID2000's, BR double pumper, BF272 cams, BR 3" turbo back, Haltech, 36.3 psi peak boost, BR Race FMIC, BR fabricated intake/BR 65 mm tb.
The #1, FP Red, is the Red lines on the graph, 506 whp/481 ft lbs.
The #2, FP Black, is the Green lines on the graph, 599 whp/500 ft lbs.
The #3, FP HTA86, is the Blue lines on the graph, 691 whp/561 ft lbs.
I have logs from the FP Black and FP HTA86 for boost but I do not have the log from the Red with me here at the shop.
The Black hit 20.19 psi at 4371 rpm while the HTA86 hit 20.2 psi at 4632 rpm.
Something else interesting to note is the Red and Black dyno pulls were started at 3500 rpm, so the throttle was to the floor at 3300 rpm or so. On my HTA86 I didn't start the pull until 4,000 rpm, had I started it lower I think the bottom end of the graph could have been improved, at the time though this was not being done for any type of comparison.
All these runs were the same day and dyno.
Here is the graph:
It's an interesting comparison. I think the one thing it shows me is that all the work I have done to keep good low/mid range in my car with the "big" turbo on it has paid off pretty well. Seeing 20 psi at only 4600 rpm in 4th gear explain why the car feels so good on the street and not like a laggy pile of garbage.
This got me to thinking about a few cars that were on the dyno and this morning I went back to look at some comparison runs. All of the runs were done in 4th gear, which for my car was a first in a few years and what got me thinking of comparing these cars.
Here are some basic details of each car on the graph I am posting.
#1, Project White, BR2.3/BR Stg 3 head, FP Red, E85 fuel, 1200cc injectors, BR double pumper, Jun 272 cams, BR 3" turbo back, stock ECU, 32 psi peak boost, BR Race FMIC, BR stock ported intake/BR 65 mm tb.
#2, Chris's car, BR 2l iter/BR Stg 3 head, FP Black, E98 fuel, ID2000's, BR double pumper, FP 5R cams, BR 3" turbo back, AEM EMS, 43 psi peak boost, BR Race FMIC, BR stock ported intake/BR 65 mm tb.
#3, Bad Bish, BR 2.1 liter, BR Stg 3 head, HTA86, E98 fuel, ID2000's, BR double pumper, BF272 cams, BR 3" turbo back, Haltech, 36.3 psi peak boost, BR Race FMIC, BR fabricated intake/BR 65 mm tb.
The #1, FP Red, is the Red lines on the graph, 506 whp/481 ft lbs.
The #2, FP Black, is the Green lines on the graph, 599 whp/500 ft lbs.
The #3, FP HTA86, is the Blue lines on the graph, 691 whp/561 ft lbs.
I have logs from the FP Black and FP HTA86 for boost but I do not have the log from the Red with me here at the shop.
The Black hit 20.19 psi at 4371 rpm while the HTA86 hit 20.2 psi at 4632 rpm.
Something else interesting to note is the Red and Black dyno pulls were started at 3500 rpm, so the throttle was to the floor at 3300 rpm or so. On my HTA86 I didn't start the pull until 4,000 rpm, had I started it lower I think the bottom end of the graph could have been improved, at the time though this was not being done for any type of comparison.
All these runs were the same day and dyno.
Here is the graph:
It's an interesting comparison. I think the one thing it shows me is that all the work I have done to keep good low/mid range in my car with the "big" turbo on it has paid off pretty well. Seeing 20 psi at only 4600 rpm in 4th gear explain why the car feels so good on the street and not like a laggy pile of garbage.
Jun 2, 2010, 10:50 AM
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Thanks for sharing that info David, its good to see what each turbo does with the correct mods
Last edited by Gary@MellonRacing; Jun 2, 2010 at 10:55 AM.
Jun 2, 2010, 11:01 AM
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its awesome how at only 4600 your large turbo catchs the black. whos trying to have fun before that anyway? not to mention after that point a bolt on can never match the feeling of a larger variant turbo. cool graph. 
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good work David
Jun 2, 2010, 02:59 PM
#11
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I am kinda double going back on myself, from this chart it appears the fpblack is a pretty pointless turbo as it's non stock framed counterparts really spool only a few hundred rpm slower but have much higher power potential
I think the standard smallest exhaust housing( .68?iirc not .82 I know that's not the smallest) 35r would spool almost the same as a black but could break 600whp much easier
or even a better comparison, the 35r on pump would kill a black on pump...
dave quick q...
Idk why I am hating on the black, some people show it's spool ungodly early though(way different than your data which I trust), are the tuner's just making the max torque earlier db? or loading the dyno funny? corr factors?
I think the standard smallest exhaust housing( .68?iirc not .82 I know that's not the smallest) 35r would spool almost the same as a black but could break 600whp much easier
or even a better comparison, the 35r on pump would kill a black on pump...
dave quick q...
Idk why I am hating on the black, some people show it's spool ungodly early though(way different than your data which I trust), are the tuner's just making the max torque earlier db? or loading the dyno funny? corr factors?
Last edited by MOREPSiTEHBETT4; Jun 2, 2010 at 03:05 PM.
