English Racing SD Evo 9 HKS7460 E85 - Results are in.
Dec 2, 2010, 08:51 AM
#211
Im curious what this turbo is capable of on a built motor around 36psi. im gonna guess around 500wtq in 3rd gear.
Dec 3, 2010, 05:47 AM
#216
The HKS turbo looks very promising. Most drivers are not equipped to drive 450 whp + cars (either ability or safe environment) IMHO, so a turbo that provides stock like spool, almost FP HTA Green power levels, ball bearing transient response and hopefully expected life, sounds like a great choice.
I love my FP HTA Green, but would love it even more if it were ball bearing
. Enjoy R/T and please drive safely.
I love my FP HTA Green, but would love it even more if it were ball bearing
. Enjoy R/T and please drive safely.
Dec 3, 2010, 01:01 PM
#219
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Dec 3, 2010, 01:52 PM
#220
What a lot of people need to realize/remember about X turbo having better dyno, "boost", and "spool" numbers is:
Just because the numbers on another turbo/setup are higher/earlier/better doesn't necessarily mean it's going to get you around a track any faster. It can, but that doesn't mean it will. Maybe in the drag racing world that is taken as gospel, but in road racing and autocross, things are very different.
Just some food for thought before anyone starts judging this turbo based only on dyno #s etc. and people start taking any road-racing/autocross-ignorant opinions as fact.
The only way to know for sure would be to take someone like R/T Ernie's car with R/T Ernie in it, driving the same track, with similar conditions, and switch the turbos out, and see what sets the best time, given similar shift and braking points. Yes, I said braking points, like... when you actually brake before the end of the track/race. What does this mean? Transient response and spool recovering from that braking and shifting are important. Maybe, and likely, even more important than peak power.
Disagree? Listen to a good racing discussion between proven fast road race and autocross drivers. Sure, power, spool, boost will probably come up. But they will be discussed in a different way than most drag racers, and especially different than the common online bench racing/dyno rhetoric that is so popular around here.
Seeing how R/T Ernie actually does the kind of racing with turns, I'll personally value his feedback over someone who doesn't road race or autocross and has just been dynoing, drag, street, and highway racing and looking at numbers online. $.02
Just because the numbers on another turbo/setup are higher/earlier/better doesn't necessarily mean it's going to get you around a track any faster. It can, but that doesn't mean it will. Maybe in the drag racing world that is taken as gospel, but in road racing and autocross, things are very different.
Just some food for thought before anyone starts judging this turbo based only on dyno #s etc. and people start taking any road-racing/autocross-ignorant opinions as fact.
The only way to know for sure would be to take someone like R/T Ernie's car with R/T Ernie in it, driving the same track, with similar conditions, and switch the turbos out, and see what sets the best time, given similar shift and braking points. Yes, I said braking points, like... when you actually brake before the end of the track/race. What does this mean? Transient response and spool recovering from that braking and shifting are important. Maybe, and likely, even more important than peak power.
Disagree? Listen to a good racing discussion between proven fast road race and autocross drivers. Sure, power, spool, boost will probably come up. But they will be discussed in a different way than most drag racers, and especially different than the common online bench racing/dyno rhetoric that is so popular around here.
Seeing how R/T Ernie actually does the kind of racing with turns, I'll personally value his feedback over someone who doesn't road race or autocross and has just been dynoing, drag, street, and highway racing and looking at numbers online. $.02
Last edited by hokiruu; Dec 3, 2010 at 02:07 PM.
Dec 3, 2010, 02:39 PM
#221
When it comes to rotating the car with the throttle and being able to add oversteer accurately and timely without over-doing it... this turbo is phenomenal. It really shines mid corner and exit (ironically...when I'm on throttle)
Or in other cases where you're dancing on the pedals and you finally get to stab the throttle on corner exit (for those of us who can't two foot) it snaps to live and you don't feel as if you left a lot of time on the table. In this case I feel it allows the drive to be a bit more consistant.
Furthermore... there is always one corner which catches you out of your powerband... even though we have a very wide powerband, and sometimes downshifting into 1st isn't prudent for footwork, stability, or time... When you finally get on throttle at 3500-4000rpm you won't regret leaving it in 2nd (or 3rd, etc) since it will pick up and take off.
Drag racers will notice how quickly the turbo comes back to power between shifts. If you've raced a journal bearing FP red or black on the strip and logged the boost pressure its AMAZING how much wheel speed (and therefore boost) you lose between shifts.
I think its a great turbo... and the first step in the right direction. I look forward to lightweight low inertia turbine wheels, BB CHRA's, Forged Billet compressor wheels, anti-surge covers, and 2010+ turbocharger aero tech being applied to stock appearing turbochargers. Basically a BW EFR stuffed in a stock turbo housing. (I already asked Geoff... I got a loud NO) I've since looked in other avenues for solutions. I've identified them and now I'll be patiently waiting.
Or in other cases where you're dancing on the pedals and you finally get to stab the throttle on corner exit (for those of us who can't two foot) it snaps to live and you don't feel as if you left a lot of time on the table. In this case I feel it allows the drive to be a bit more consistant.
Furthermore... there is always one corner which catches you out of your powerband... even though we have a very wide powerband, and sometimes downshifting into 1st isn't prudent for footwork, stability, or time... When you finally get on throttle at 3500-4000rpm you won't regret leaving it in 2nd (or 3rd, etc) since it will pick up and take off.
Drag racers will notice how quickly the turbo comes back to power between shifts. If you've raced a journal bearing FP red or black on the strip and logged the boost pressure its AMAZING how much wheel speed (and therefore boost) you lose between shifts.
I think its a great turbo... and the first step in the right direction. I look forward to lightweight low inertia turbine wheels, BB CHRA's, Forged Billet compressor wheels, anti-surge covers, and 2010+ turbocharger aero tech being applied to stock appearing turbochargers. Basically a BW EFR stuffed in a stock turbo housing. (I already asked Geoff... I got a loud NO) I've since looked in other avenues for solutions. I've identified them and now I'll be patiently waiting.
Dec 3, 2010, 02:44 PM
#222
We measured transient response between shifts (some is relative to shift speed of course) on the dyno. Using a BBK and 27psi the time for boost recovery was somewhere between .31 and .34 seconds. This was on Mychailo's car and assumed I didnt pussyfoot around on the shift.
Aaron
Aaron
Dec 3, 2010, 02:51 PM
#223
the issue with doing that Aaron is your inertia of the wheel is carried from the previous shift and is not repeatable. Doing coast downs to the target RPM and then measuring the time from WOT until peak torque is achieved (we measure 90% of peak torque) You can do a complete profile from idle all the way up to near redline...and then generate a curve. It makes for an excellent comparison of transient performance.
Dec 3, 2010, 02:55 PM
#224
Thats time to peak boost in one gear though, I thought you mentioned turbine speed dropping off between shifts.
I may have gotten confused on who said what when, but I have started measuring time between shifts to see what recovery time is on shifts. Compression braking/axle braking with load at the axle would be harder to sim though. I can probably do it if I time the load control percentage and time of application to simulate an "average" braking event.
I may have gotten confused on who said what when, but I have started measuring time between shifts to see what recovery time is on shifts. Compression braking/axle braking with load at the axle would be harder to sim though. I can probably do it if I time the load control percentage and time of application to simulate an "average" braking event.
Dec 3, 2010, 02:59 PM
#225
yeah time between shifts is best logged at the strip.
For quantitatively measuing transient performance doing WOT pulls from coast downs (runs minimum shaft speed) IMO... is the best most reliable data you can utilize to draw conclusions.
For quantitatively measuing transient performance doing WOT pulls from coast downs (runs minimum shaft speed) IMO... is the best most reliable data you can utilize to draw conclusions.