FP Black vs 3582R HTA
Mar 8, 2011, 09:01 AM
#33
For drag racing a FP Black would be a superior turbo depending on the set up, for road racing there is no question the a 3582 has a better powerband and reliability. Keep in mind my PRM's stay between 5500 to 9000. And one thing the dyno does not show is the wastegate on the stock frame turbo creates allot of turbulence when at halft throttle, the TIAL external on the 3582 does not and helps modulate all that power around corners.
Mar 8, 2011, 10:25 AM
#34
What turbulence exactly? I have an external dump on my IX turbo and that separates everything. I also don't understand how a stock frame twin scroll turbo could be less responsive then a Single Scroll large frame turbo. I get the BB being more reliable, that goes without saying of course.
Transient response at 5500 RMP + is feels the same probably because of the HTA wheel being so lite and the BB.
Regarding the turbulence, this occurs both on the FP Black w. external and the 35r with Tial Dump, the difference is on the 35 this feeling of the wastegate trying to control the boost is lessened and makes the car more controllable probably by the smoother and larger wastegate size. That is what I felt when I just went road racing at Portland international.
I hope this helps.
Mar 8, 2011, 10:47 AM
#36
Excellent comparo, thank you for sharing!
Mar 8, 2011, 12:18 PM
#37
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Im not going to go to far into this but look carfully at the graph. If you look closely at max boost on black its at 40 psi then tapers down to 32
If you look at the 3582 when pushed to 40 psi max boost it tapers down to 34. So actually the 3582 make almost 50 hp more than the black with one degree less of timing.
Every turbo is different some turbos you cant keep increasing boost to make power because they will spike really bad and power will taper off towards redline so you increase timing to compensate.
Its not about peak #'s for road racing its about flat powerband, usable rpm's and smooth throttle inputs.
Hope this helps.
If you look at the 3582 when pushed to 40 psi max boost it tapers down to 34. So actually the 3582 make almost 50 hp more than the black with one degree less of timing.
Every turbo is different some turbos you cant keep increasing boost to make power because they will spike really bad and power will taper off towards redline so you increase timing to compensate.
Its not about peak #'s for road racing its about flat powerband, usable rpm's and smooth throttle inputs.
Hope this helps.
All I'm saying is that of the two turbo's, at the same psi, the Black made a couple extra HP and not 50 less like everyone else here seems to be commenting on.
Mar 8, 2011, 01:30 PM
#38
Its hard to describe much more easy to experience but from my experience tracking my car here is what I can say.
Transient response at 5500 RMP + is feels the same probably because of the HTA wheel being so lite and the BB.
Regarding the turbulence, this occurs both on the FP Black w. external and the 35r with Tial Dump, the difference is on the 35 this feeling of the wastegate trying to control the boost is lessened and makes the car more controllable probably by the smoother and larger wastegate size. That is what I felt when I just went road racing at Portland international.
I hope this helps.
Transient response at 5500 RMP + is feels the same probably because of the HTA wheel being so lite and the BB.
Regarding the turbulence, this occurs both on the FP Black w. external and the 35r with Tial Dump, the difference is on the 35 this feeling of the wastegate trying to control the boost is lessened and makes the car more controllable probably by the smoother and larger wastegate size. That is what I felt when I just went road racing at Portland international.
I hope this helps.
Mar 21, 2011, 02:29 PM
#41
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a) GT35R bb for better Reliability
b) External Wastegate controlls boost better
c) GT35R = better 5000-9000rpm powerband
d) better boost recovery
But wouldnt a T3 .63 be a better comparo to a FP Black in terms off Power under the curve - One only really needs a .82 if your chasing higher trap speeds...
.
Mar 21, 2011, 05:14 PM
#42
Theoretically the .63 would perform better for road racing but looking at his powerband he revs to 9k and runs a large amount of boost. The .63 would become restrictive at these boost levels and the powerband he uses there wouldn't really be any benefit for the marginal gain in spool.
Seeing as his car probably stays above 5k most it's life on the track he is always in it's powerband and unless he's running some serious tire you don't want all of 600whp coming alive instantly (atleast in my opinion)...especially on parts of PIR.
Seeing as his car probably stays above 5k most it's life on the track he is always in it's powerband and unless he's running some serious tire you don't want all of 600whp coming alive instantly (atleast in my opinion)...especially on parts of PIR.
Mar 22, 2011, 08:05 PM
#45
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Finally, exactly how does the TIAL remote gate... "help(s) modulate...power around corners"?