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Scale for 2.4 vs 2.2 displacement and 3000RPM sounds about right. Would be interesting to see a boost plot of a 2nd or 3rd gear pull on the street.
Must be fun to drive.
Thats what I see also with the 2.2 and 1.0XTR (FP Full BB) but we're also limited to about 500hp. The same or better response and 75hp more would be pretty fun.
No worries ,If you ever get the chance on the street I would be interested in the data . It looks like a fantastic combination. Any videos of the car?
I'm not the best when it comes to getting videos but I did grab a few logs today. Please excuse the boost control issues I am currently working on but this should give you a good idea how fast this turbo responds.
2nd gear.
3rd gear.
4th gear.
And just for fun 5th gear. Really gives you a idea how little effort it takes to pass when you're cruising on the highway with the tq always ready.
Very impressive results and excellent work on the build. Great timing too, as I am currently in the process of having a 2.4LR built and was considering a similar setup and wondering whether the results would justify the means vs. a stock frame turbo option. I guess the difference in response is probably even more than can be shown here. A manifold builder and I were discussing the fitment challenges last week, and yours came out very nicely.
It's a lot of crap in a small space. I think this also highlights how good a FP red is for something that just bolts up. I think the 7670 makes power a little easier but if you optimize your set up like Abacus they clearly shine and hold up to being over sped vs the EFR's which clearly don't. It is a lot of time and effort to fit everything if you want AC, twin scroll, with quiet gates and a red is such a easy button. That said I am very please with this set up and it's a bit less weight over the front axle especially when the IC is taken into account as well.
Don't know how I missed this thread. Awesome results. I love seeing setups like this work out how they should. Gives me more stuff to show people when they ask why I'm such a big EFR fan. Crazy how well these turbos are still such strong performers given the design is a decade old.
You're right that the Ti Gamma wheels don't like being oversped but the smaller ones can tolerate it much better than the 80 series (which self destructs very fast) and the 74 series.
Also sweet that you added as much data acq as you did. I've chatted about individual cyl temps with some others and cyl 4 runs hottest so it's no surprise it's the leanest. Have you thought about adding exhaust pressure sensors?
Also, small note I'd consider building an enclosure for that battery. Those connections will corrode fast being exposed to elements underneath the car.
And what's up with the end tanks on the intercooler? Care to share where you got it from or is it something you made?
Don't know how I missed this thread. Awesome results. I love seeing setups like this work out how they should. Gives me more stuff to show people when they ask why I'm such a big EFR fan. Crazy how well these turbos are still such strong performers given the design is a decade old.
You're right that the Ti Gamma wheels don't like being oversped but the smaller ones can tolerate it much better than the 80 series (which self destructs very fast) and the 74 series.
Also sweet that you added as much data acq as you did. I've chatted about individual cyl temps with some others and cyl 4 runs hottest so it's no surprise it's the leanest. Have you thought about adding exhaust pressure sensors?
Also, small note I'd consider building an enclosure for that battery. Those connections will corrode fast being exposed to elements underneath the car.
And what's up with the end tanks on the intercooler? Care to share where you got it from or is it something you made?
I would love to hear more if you have experience with the smaller EFR tip speeds. I have back pressure being sourced right before the turbine it's just a little hard to see in the bay but you can in the manifold picture. That is not quite what I found with cyl #1 curiously. I was a bit plexed but verified and as they say the data doesn't lie. This is why I went with the o2's over EGT's. Interesting comment about the battery. I haven't had a issue but the car never sees rain. I'll keep a eye on that thank you. The intercooler was a custom unit with a tube and fin (much lighter) core and cnc'd end tanks. The hex pattern was to reduce weight originally (as little as it may be) but became a design to tie all the parts together. Actually almost everything that was added to the car was fabricated. All the current offerings on the market wouldn't meet my needs in some way. Most parts lacked the brackets to keep some stock component they support or interact with including the intercooler.
Sorry if I missed it but what size injectors are you using and is it still stock fuel rail? I recall (Mr.Fred I believe it was?) once stating he had seen injectors further down the rail run leaner on E85 and it may have been attributed to the factory rail not being able to provide sufficient volume by cyl #4, causing it to run lean. I don't know if your power level could experience that but it came to mind.
Sorry if I missed it but what size injectors are you using and is it still stock fuel rail? I recall (Mr.Fred I believe it was?) once stating he had seen injectors further down the rail run leaner on E85 and it may have been attributed to the factory rail not being able to provide sufficient volume by cyl #4. I don't know if your power level could experience that but it came to mind.
I tried to keep the stock rain but ended up giving in once I felt it was going to need a reg. I have ID1700's with radium rail and rail mounted reg.
I would love to hear more if you have experience with the smaller EFR tip speeds. I have back pressure being sourced right before the turbine it's just a little hard to see in the bay but you can in the manifold picture. That is not quite what I found with cyl #1 curiously. I was a bit plexed but verified and as they say the data doesn't lie. This is why I went with the o2's over EGT's. Interesting comment about the battery. I haven't had a issue but the car never sees rain. I'll keep a eye on that thank you. The intercooler was a custom unit with a tube and fin (much lighter) core and cnc'd end tanks. The hex pattern was to reduce weight originally (as little as it may be) but became a design to tie all the parts together. Actually almost everything that was added to the car was fabricated. All the current offerings on the market wouldn't meet my needs in some way. Most parts lacked the brackets to keep some stock component they support or interact with including the intercooler.
I don't have firsthand EFR experience or data other that noticing lots of guys with B1 frames and smaller B2 frames overspeeding them for a while without failure. The catastrophic failures are pretty much only an 80 series issue because the wheel is so large and tip speeds go way off the map quickly. It's the reason the 9174 exists now.
As for O2 vs EGT there's different approaches and mindsets. O2 data is nice but at the end of the day it's an oxygen sensor, all it's looking at is oxygen content in the exhaust.
I prefer temps because even if you're not lean doesn't mean you're not hot and you can still melt stuff with fat AFRs, believe me I've pushed engines to 1800F with 10:1 AFRs on engine dynos. Timing plays just as much of a factor as fuel when you're talking temps and an O2 sensor won't tell you when something is about to melt. Also, if you have back pressure data you can correlate back pressure to exahust temps to see where temps really start to sky rocket in relation to pressure to find where the limit and safe point is.
Sweet work on all the parts too man, you've got a keen sense for details. Those seat brackets are interesting for sure, doesn't look cheap in the slightest haha. What seat are you running in it?
I'm interested in why the one cylinder was so much leaner? For a project where you focused so much attention to detail I'm guessing that lean cylinder drove you nuts. Are the wideband sensors you used rated for high backpressure? I know some sensors read wrong when exposed to backpressure.
WOW! You should seriously start selling some of this stuff. It's quite impressive. The details that you put into your work is incredible. Your wiring looks great and the creativity you put into maximizing air flow and keeping heat down is insane. Lol If I ever come to Texas, please let me see this car in person. I have a 2.4LR (9:1) that I was thinking about selling. It was going to be mated with a stock frame 11 blade GTX3076.
I don't have an EFR but I did have an s257sxe t3 .82 (7670) on a stock block w/ kelford 272. Peak power was the same but the torque and spool was no where close.
I don't have an EFR but I did have an s257sxe t3 .82 (7670) on a stock block w/ kelford 272. Peak power was the same but the torque and spool was no where close.
Hard to compare a stock bottom end to a built 2.4LR. The spool difference is all of 7-800rpm. Not to mention being able to crank the boost since it's not torque limited by the rods.
Dec 26, 2019, 01:11 PM
