Post exact weights of weight reduction you have done!
Apr 4, 2012, 08:17 PM
#1111
My brother in law runs his 42r powered 1g without a front mount at all. He uses a solid rear mount that bolts to the k member. The side mounts are poly replacement mounts. His motor doesn't budge. IF you went with a solid rear mount and say TS side mounts I don't think it would be an issue at all either.
Apr 5, 2012, 06:59 AM
#1113
I have one you can add to the list Dan. The new Lithium Pro C680 battery, perfect fit for our battery tray. The battery alone is 4.5 pounds with our battery tray, terminals and hardware the weight is only 5.5 pounds.
They are on our site now and I have one in my car. 10.1 pounds lighter than our normal, lightweight battery kit!
They are on our site now and I have one in my car. 10.1 pounds lighter than our normal, lightweight battery kit!
Apr 5, 2012, 07:03 AM
#1114
As for the crossmember in the EVO.
We tried both the front and the rear mounts and watched on the dyno to see which one was the most beneficial in limiting the engine movement. With the rear mount being "solid" in the car the engine still lifted quite a bit with the front stock mount. We then tried the "solid" front engine mount with the stock rear mount, the engine didn't move.
My feeling based on that is if I had to choose one to get rid of it would be the rear, it's also the hardest to work with when working on the car.
The front mount being integrated into the front center member has a lot of support on it. When the engine is at rest it doesn't take much to hold it in place, when the car accelerates the engine lifts HARD in the front. If you built a mount that eliminated the center member you'd have to build a triangulated piece to replace it, there is no way a simple bar style mount just off the core support would hold up to the engine lifting.
We tried both the front and the rear mounts and watched on the dyno to see which one was the most beneficial in limiting the engine movement. With the rear mount being "solid" in the car the engine still lifted quite a bit with the front stock mount. We then tried the "solid" front engine mount with the stock rear mount, the engine didn't move.
My feeling based on that is if I had to choose one to get rid of it would be the rear, it's also the hardest to work with when working on the car.
The front mount being integrated into the front center member has a lot of support on it. When the engine is at rest it doesn't take much to hold it in place, when the car accelerates the engine lifts HARD in the front. If you built a mount that eliminated the center member you'd have to build a triangulated piece to replace it, there is no way a simple bar style mount just off the core support would hold up to the engine lifting.
Apr 5, 2012, 07:04 AM
#1115
I have one you can add to the list Dan. The new Lithium Pro C680 battery, perfect fit for our battery tray. The battery alone is 4.5 pounds with our battery tray, terminals and hardware the weight is only 5.5 pounds.
They are on our site now and I have one in my car. 10.1 pounds lighter than our normal, lightweight battery kit!
They are on our site now and I have one in my car. 10.1 pounds lighter than our normal, lightweight battery kit!
Apr 5, 2012, 08:13 AM
#1116
As for the crossmember in the EVO.
We tried both the front and the rear mounts and watched on the dyno to see which one was the most beneficial in limiting the engine movement. With the rear mount being "solid" in the car the engine still lifted quite a bit with the front stock mount. We then tried the "solid" front engine mount with the stock rear mount, the engine didn't move.
My feeling based on that is if I had to choose one to get rid of it would be the rear, it's also the hardest to work with when working on the car.
The front mount being integrated into the front center member has a lot of support on it. When the engine is at rest it doesn't take much to hold it in place, when the car accelerates the engine lifts HARD in the front. If you built a mount that eliminated the center member you'd have to build a triangulated piece to replace it, there is no way a simple bar style mount just off the core support would hold up to the engine lifting.
We tried both the front and the rear mounts and watched on the dyno to see which one was the most beneficial in limiting the engine movement. With the rear mount being "solid" in the car the engine still lifted quite a bit with the front stock mount. We then tried the "solid" front engine mount with the stock rear mount, the engine didn't move.
My feeling based on that is if I had to choose one to get rid of it would be the rear, it's also the hardest to work with when working on the car.
The front mount being integrated into the front center member has a lot of support on it. When the engine is at rest it doesn't take much to hold it in place, when the car accelerates the engine lifts HARD in the front. If you built a mount that eliminated the center member you'd have to build a triangulated piece to replace it, there is no way a simple bar style mount just off the core support would hold up to the engine lifting.
Thanks for the input and insight dave, it is always appreciated.
Take a look at this quick sketch if you get a chance. In my mind, treating this piece like a truss, it would distribute the upward force or rotational movement of the engine on that axis. Granted it would require long legs on side bar 1 and 2 ( which might be limited to space ( not to mention heavier).
Thoughts ? for the group ?
Last edited by antilag_200; Apr 5, 2012 at 09:35 AM.
Apr 5, 2012, 01:30 PM
#1117
As for the crossmember in the EVO.
We tried both the front and the rear mounts and watched on the dyno to see which one was the most beneficial in limiting the engine movement. With the rear mount being "solid" in the car the engine still lifted quite a bit with the front stock mount. We then tried the "solid" front engine mount with the stock rear mount, the engine didn't move.
We tried both the front and the rear mounts and watched on the dyno to see which one was the most beneficial in limiting the engine movement. With the rear mount being "solid" in the car the engine still lifted quite a bit with the front stock mount. We then tried the "solid" front engine mount with the stock rear mount, the engine didn't move.
In my opinion the front and rear mounts are only needed when you run stock side mounts because they (side mounts) are soft in the vertical direction (and pretty much every other direction). having a front and a back mount creates at force couple that eliminates (or at least reduces) the vertical forces from the engine torque reaction. once you have side mounts that are stiff in the vertical direction you can drop to 3 mounts because the side mounts can now support the resultant vertical force.
when you make the rear mount solid the vertical force resulting from the engine torque reaction is in the upwards direction and when you go to a solid front mount the vertical force is in the downward direction. when you have stock side mounts the weight of the engine is already compressing them downwards so they are stiffer in the downwards direction. Thus the engine won't move as far when you put in a solid front mount when compared to putting in a solid rear mount.
It's not like the stock rear mount is doing anything once you install a stiffer aftermarket front mount anyway.
Apr 5, 2012, 02:10 PM
#1118
Warren, take a look under your EVO, the mount I was picturing would be much simpler than yours, probably require a few extra holes in the lower core support though. Like cut the front of our center member off behind the engine mount and then a truss upwards under the core support with bolts into the face of the core support on the engine side under the radiator.
Apr 5, 2012, 02:13 PM
#1119
I assume this was with stock side mounts?
In my opinion the front and rear mounts are only needed when you run stock side mounts because they (side mounts) are soft in the vertical direction (and pretty much every other direction). having a front and a back mount creates at force couple that eliminates (or at least reduces) the vertical forces from the engine torque reaction. once you have side mounts that are stiff in the vertical direction you can drop to 3 mounts because the side mounts can now support the resultant vertical force.
when you make the rear mount solid the vertical force resulting from the engine torque reaction is in the upwards direction and when you go to a solid front mount the vertical force is in the downward direction. when you have stock side mounts the weight of the engine is already compressing them downwards so they are stiffer in the downwards direction. Thus the engine won't move as far when you put in a solid front mount when compared to putting in a solid rear mount.
It's not like the stock rear mount is doing anything once you install a stiffer aftermarket front mount anyway.
In my opinion the front and rear mounts are only needed when you run stock side mounts because they (side mounts) are soft in the vertical direction (and pretty much every other direction). having a front and a back mount creates at force couple that eliminates (or at least reduces) the vertical forces from the engine torque reaction. once you have side mounts that are stiff in the vertical direction you can drop to 3 mounts because the side mounts can now support the resultant vertical force.
when you make the rear mount solid the vertical force resulting from the engine torque reaction is in the upwards direction and when you go to a solid front mount the vertical force is in the downward direction. when you have stock side mounts the weight of the engine is already compressing them downwards so they are stiffer in the downwards direction. Thus the engine won't move as far when you put in a solid front mount when compared to putting in a solid rear mount.
It's not like the stock rear mount is doing anything once you install a stiffer aftermarket front mount anyway.
Too much engineering terms in there for me. What I got out of that was if you run the stiffer front mount the rear isn't much needed, which is what I just said in my last post.
Eliminating the front and rear mounts would be....uh, not good. The engine would rock for sure, solid side mounts or not. Poor choice to do that. Also, if you've ever driven a street EVO with multiple "solid" mounts in it, you will soon learn that you don't want that as the vibration and noise drives me nuts. I have stock mounts in my car except for the front center member. Engine stays in place and I have little to no extra vibration/noise from it.
Apr 5, 2012, 02:22 PM
#1120
Eliminating the front and rear mounts would be....uh, not good. The engine would rock for sure, solid side mounts or not. Poor choice to do that. Also, if you've ever driven a street EVO with multiple "solid" mounts in it, you will soon learn that you don't want that as the vibration and noise drives me nuts. I have stock mounts in my car except for the front center member. Engine stays in place and I have little to no extra vibration/noise from it.
I agree that the vibration is going to be vastly increased. I figured if anyone on these forums would be willing to trade some NVH for less weight it would be the guys in this thread. If I had a drag race only car, I would remove the front mount and the bar it mounts too and run aftermarket rear and side mounts.
I do agree that with stock side mounts replacing the front mount only is a good compromise.
Last edited by griceiv; Apr 5, 2012 at 02:28 PM.
Apr 5, 2012, 04:44 PM
#1121
Warren, take a look under your EVO, the mount I was picturing would be much simpler than yours, probably require a few extra holes in the lower core support though. Like cut the front of our center member off behind the engine mount and then a truss upwards under the core support with bolts into the face of the core support on the engine side under the radiator.
You paying attention scott
Apr 5, 2012, 10:29 PM
#1125
I appreciate the help so basically just leave the rear and take out the front. I found a godspeed rear sway bar for 90 shipped based on my research it shaves 5 lbs off. Thats basically Im building the car for now is drag racing with ocasional normal street driving