arp bolts and studs worth upgrading?
Sep 30, 2004, 12:13 PM
#1
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arp bolts and studs worth upgrading?
ive heard many times the 2 weekest links in our motors are the head bolts/rod bolts. i already have a set of head studs not installed. im ganna buy arp rod bolts to help button down the bottom end. i do not have the money to build the motor, but i want it as strong as possible for the money. i also found out to change the rod bolts i need to get new bearings? im sure everyone has heard about the so called" no cam, head stud installation". is this a good idea?... or will it warp the head? is it ganna be worth it to do this work to the motor? i have a gt30r installed, and it seems to be fine as of now. what are recomendations to how best make my motor stronger.
Sep 30, 2004, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dragon41673
Hey...I have the main bolts if you want them. I was going to install them...but I have some serious $$$ issues right now so shoot me a PM
Sep 30, 2004, 08:33 PM
#5
I see that you have an upgraded turbo.... how much power are you making at the wheels now?
The reason I ask, is that the stock hardware is plenty good enough for any amount of power you can make with the stock turbo as your only power adder. So, if you are sticking with pump gas and making 400HP at the wheels or less (dynojet / dynapack figures) then you don't need to upgrade. If you run race fuel and are making 450+ HP on your setup, then yes I would upgrade the head studs.
Rod bolts only become an issue when you are spinning really high RPM's. If you are spinning up to the stock fuel cutoff or only slightly above you can stick with the stock rod bolts.
Later,
Keith
The reason I ask, is that the stock hardware is plenty good enough for any amount of power you can make with the stock turbo as your only power adder. So, if you are sticking with pump gas and making 400HP at the wheels or less (dynojet / dynapack figures) then you don't need to upgrade. If you run race fuel and are making 450+ HP on your setup, then yes I would upgrade the head studs.
Rod bolts only become an issue when you are spinning really high RPM's. If you are spinning up to the stock fuel cutoff or only slightly above you can stick with the stock rod bolts.
Later,
Keith
Sep 30, 2004, 09:46 PM
#6
Here go's the old man's rant...
ARP head studs are a must for peace of mind... for anyone tinkering with the tune of their car in any way (any one of, or combination of changed boost, fuel, timing). Anyone not willing to spend the $100 and hour and a half of time to protect there car are quite simply fools. People may come behind me and cite this instance, or that instance of Joe Blow who has made X hundred amount of horse power forever without problems... or even they, themselves are doing it with out issue. Fewer still may point you to a horror story of a guy who's head gasket let go on a bone stock car. It really doesn't matter who proves their point... it might be you sitting on the side of the road on the cell phone because you chose not to take a simple, inexpensive step that could have cut the chance of the head gasket letting go dramatically.
Do your self a favor and do a search on "head studs" and see how many "big name" tuners recommend/install them...
Do your self a favor and do a search on "head studs" and see how many "big name" tuners recommend/install them...
Sep 30, 2004, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rt turbo
im sure everyone has heard about the so called" no cam, head stud installation". is this a good idea?... or will it warp the head?
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Sep 30, 2004, 10:18 PM
#8
[QUOTE]Rod bolts only become an issue when you are spinning really high RPM's. If you are spinning up to the stock fuel cutoff or only slightly above you can stick with the stock rod bolts.[/QUOTE
Oh not true. If your going to run higher boosts with a aftermarket turbo better upgrade or else.
Oh not true. If your going to run higher boosts with a aftermarket turbo better upgrade or else.
Sep 30, 2004, 10:27 PM
#9
Originally Posted by rt turbo
ive heard many times the 2 weekest links in our motors are the head bolts/rod bolts. i already have a set of head studs not installed. im ganna buy arp rod bolts to help button down the bottom end. i do not have the money to build the motor, but i want it as strong as possible for the money. i also found out to change the rod bolts i need to get new bearings? im sure everyone has heard about the so called" no cam, head stud installation". is this a good idea?... or will it warp the head? is it ganna be worth it to do this work to the motor? i have a gt30r installed, and it seems to be fine as of now. what are recomendations to how best make my motor stronger.
There is a great thread out there that I started few months ago about head studs. Search for it. it was great with a lot of pure info... Now we came to this, if you are running 21~26 psi on the streets but you are not auto Xing or track racing hard you should be fine. But if you race hard with race gas for few hrs on the track every month you should get them. Here is another good point the cost $100 but most big name tuners will not recommend the 1 bolt at a time installation and YES you might warp your head. The bottom line is if you move the head (which is the right way) it will cost you 6 hrs of labor plus the studs. If you do it one by one you are on your own....a good friend of mine here on the forum blew his engine up a month ago but we don’t know if it was the tune, the maps or the even the studs that he installed a month before on his EVO... Good luck
Sep 30, 2004, 10:30 PM
#10
[QUOTE=value]
According to big name tuners... the stock rod bolts are strong enough but they become a point of possible failure on high RPM reving
Rod bolts only become an issue when you are spinning really high RPM's. If you are spinning up to the stock fuel cutoff or only slightly above you can stick with the stock rod bolts.[/QUOTE
Oh not true. If your going to run higher boosts with a aftermarket turbo better upgrade or else.
Oh not true. If your going to run higher boosts with a aftermarket turbo better upgrade or else.
According to big name tuners... the stock rod bolts are strong enough but they become a point of possible failure on high RPM reving
Oct 1, 2004, 12:17 AM
#11
...AMS is not alone in using the "one at a time method" for head studs. Do the job the next morning when the engine has cooled over night and you should not have any "warping issues". I used this method with my own car using the OE torque sequence after letting the car sit over night.
All is well.
All is well.
Oct 1, 2004, 02:24 AM
#12
[QUOTE=value]
Question: When is strain placed on the rod bolts?
Answer: On the intake stroke of the 4 stroke cycle!
Not on the power stroke, piston is pushing down on the crank shaft.
Not on the exhaust stroke, crank shaft is pushing up on the rod.
Not on the compression stroke, once again crank shaft is pushing up on the rod.
The ONLY time rod bolts become an issue is on the intake stroke, and transitions (some side loading) at TDC and BDC. The strain on those bolts is a direct function of piston speed and weight. The weight will not change, but piston speed goes up as a function of RPM.
This concludes our physiscs lesson for the day.
Keith
Rod bolts only become an issue when you are spinning really high RPM's. If you are spinning up to the stock fuel cutoff or only slightly above you can stick with the stock rod bolts.[/QUOTE
Oh not true. If your going to run higher boosts with a aftermarket turbo better upgrade or else.
Oh not true. If your going to run higher boosts with a aftermarket turbo better upgrade or else.
Question: When is strain placed on the rod bolts?
Answer: On the intake stroke of the 4 stroke cycle!
Not on the power stroke, piston is pushing down on the crank shaft.
Not on the exhaust stroke, crank shaft is pushing up on the rod.
Not on the compression stroke, once again crank shaft is pushing up on the rod.
The ONLY time rod bolts become an issue is on the intake stroke, and transitions (some side loading) at TDC and BDC. The strain on those bolts is a direct function of piston speed and weight. The weight will not change, but piston speed goes up as a function of RPM.
This concludes our physiscs lesson for the day.
Keith
Oct 1, 2004, 03:23 AM
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I installed my head studs with I did my cams...
I cycled torqued them for about 1 hr about 7=8 times...
If you can believe it after the 4th time the head studs did not move...
1st ,2nd,3rd cycle the bolts needs a few click on the torque wrench...
Its a good idea for piece of mind...Thats why I did mine...
I cycled torqued them for about 1 hr about 7=8 times...
If you can believe it after the 4th time the head studs did not move...
1st ,2nd,3rd cycle the bolts needs a few click on the torque wrench...
Its a good idea for piece of mind...Thats why I did mine...
Oct 3, 2004, 03:02 PM
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so, im guessing you all do remomend the head studs, and since i already have a set here, i may as well use them. i do not have the money left over after the turbo to have the head resurfaced and a new head gasket, so im ganna do the no cam removal. any recomendations on torque wrenches... i have a crasftsman. is there any recomendations on break in after install, or retorquuing to spec after install?
also, what rpm do you all consider "high reving"? every once in a while, i rev to 7500-7600 but mostly less than .02 seconds and by accident. my 1st gear just revs too quickly. i do not run my car too hard, and i dont road/autox race.
also, what rpm do you all consider "high reving"? every once in a while, i rev to 7500-7600 but mostly less than .02 seconds and by accident. my 1st gear just revs too quickly. i do not run my car too hard, and i dont road/autox race.
