Jamie@WORKS

iTrader: (10)

You might want to read this: http://www.worksevo.com/store/produc...roducts_id=139

David@Vishnu

iTrader: (2)

I don't think that is what he meant

boomn29

iTrader: (47)

Well put; short and sweet.
I have to say it..........do a search! There's been tons of threads that talk about these 2. I remember one that got very heated and the mods shut it down for a few days then opened it back up.

Apples and Oranges....

mayhem

iTrader: (9)

Anyway...
I went with the P2 because I don't plan to tune. Plus the P2 'tunes' come free with the WORKS parts.

gsujeff55

iTrader: (4)

well, that was kind of it, LOL. i guess i am just not aware of some apparent bad blood between tuners or something. Out of the loop i guess you could say.

Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

Just look for results.

eclipsegs2k1

i'm going with vishnu simply because of results and also i hear good things about vishnu... not to say i don't hear good things about Works, but the results swayed me to vishnu

Zeus

iTrader: (66)

If YOU know how to tune a car then get the Xede... but if YOU don't know how to tune a car, get the flash. I'm pretty happy with the P2, but then again, I didn't pay the ridiculous price they are asking for it either. If I ever get around to installing a larger turbo kit, I'll end up going with something tunable also.

EM@WORKS

Don't forget about the T1 Turbo Flash Kit.
The WORKS T1 Flash kit is a plug 'n play solution for those running the ATP Turbo kits. It includes a set of flow-matched 700cc Denso injectors, special boost hose assembly (for boost control through the factory ECU like the P2), and of course the T1 Flash.

IE Evo

Had both, and Pros and Cons different than yours. Did you have both? I think NO.

Super smooth power band-Compared to what stock maybe but Shiv's product is very smooth .

Massive aceleration- Compared to stock maybe but Shiv's product gives more hp and better proven performance at the tracks that I frequent.

Boost does not taper- Got me there but mine appeared to be pulling timing above 6500 rpms due to this feature.

Lets the ECU do the work- the exede does not overide the failsafe capabilities of the ECU. It just enhances what it is lacking and makes more safe power IMO.

Guys at Works are awesome- Got me there also. They are total A-holes at Vishnu(jk) but Shiv et al have treated pretty darn good eventhough i brought the property value down in the immediate area when I was last up there.(Darn is for David at Vishnu)

As far as leaving a smile on your face I am happy for you but go up against a stage 1 or 1+ from Vishnu and you won't be smiling anymore.

Mods stop deleting my objective posts. I liked the p2 but his response is biased and not based off of any experience with either products. Been there and done both.

IE Evo

How much powa this kit puttin out?What turbo the 3071?

EM@WORKS

It depends on one's definition of "failsafe."
Piggy backs basically alter a signal and lie to the input of the ECU which in turn causes the ECU to output a different response.
For instance, a frequency from the VAF is sent to the piggy-back. From there, the piggy-back changes the frequency and sends it off to the ECU. The ECU takes this "new" frequency and adjusts injector duty cycle among other variables.
In many applications, piggy backs can work quite well. Especially in older ECUs. Unfortunately the EVO ECU is a bit more sensitive.
One good example where fooling the ECU may not be a great idea is the fuel power relay the EVO ECU controls depending on it's input signals. During normal "low load" operation, the fuel power relay is on and power going to the fuel pump passes through a resistor thusly lowering the output potential of the pump. When the ECU receives correct direct signals from the engine's sensors, it uses complex algorithms to switch to "high load". During "high load" (as defined by many variables in the ECU), the fuel power relay is turned off, the resistor is bypassed, and more power is allowed to pass to the fuel pump letting it operate normally. Therefore with all the power going directly to the fuel pump, you won't run into a lean condition which is often band-aided or masked by a higher output fuel pump. To keep things simple, the stock EVO fuel pump operating normally can flow enough fuel for approximately 400HP.
When using an external device to fool the stock ECU like a piggy-back, the ECU may never switch to "high load", the fuel relay may never switch off, and the pump will forever be running in low power lean mode.
There are many other examples where fooling the stock ECU is not "safe" in our eyes. Even we don't fully understand ALL of the intricacies within the factory ECU but we believe our Engineers understand more than most outside of Mitsubishi.

ez76

iTrader: (5)

EM, your scary tales of fuel pump resistors not being bypassed under high load are quite appropriate for Halloween!

Can you elaborate on these "complex algorithms" used to determine load (are they really more than just a simple function of RPM, VSS and MAF), or better yet, theorize why in practice well-tuned piggyback systems don't run into these issues?

Even other "pure" reflash solution vendors recommend a fuel pump upgrade. I have my own theories, but why do you think this might be?

Zeus

iTrader: (66)

Don't forget your are participating in a medium ruled by others... the only way to escape the rule of the house is not to play in it. It might not be your objectivity, but your method that is bringing down the house on you. I'm not condemning you, just merely pointing out the fact of the matter.

Back on topic...

I'm one of those who plain and simple, don't like piggy back systems on the Evo... I'm not saying they don't have a place, but to sell them to persons who are not qualified (figure of speech) to own them is irresponsible. 90% of Evo owners have little business playing with fuel and timing maps. There are more than a few "I blew my motor" posts floating around. That is not a "holier than thou" attitude as you can see I also run a flash. We are all entitled to our opinions, and that is mine.

CupertinoSteve

I think most of the people who get the XEDE (or other piggybacks), have the intention of eventually "playing around" with some of the settings, but I think most ended up just leaving the base maps alone (other than map switching to a higher octane base map).

At least that was my experience with the XEDE in my WRX.

Steve