Az3ar

iTrader: (18)

and NO you are wrong your cams will not do well with a bigger turbo they will over lap... I have done so much research and the best cams for my turbo will be piper cams. your cams are going to waste.. When you upgrade you are spouse to upgrade the turbo first and match the cams after not the other way around buddy.

alex_alex

iTrader: (7)

1) OK, you go and tell the One Lap of America car, or Robi's car, or GT40's car, that those 272's don't help out a larger turbo.

2) ME and Smog don't have every part made for the evo. No intake manifold, no exhuast manifold, no aftermarket airbox, etc. etc.

3) How is my race gas c16 when i told you those numbers were on 91 OCTANE.

4) i figured that 370hp was a dynojet figure. 315hp on Vishnu's DD makes around 350hp on a dynojet. So . . . a 370 hp on a dynojet will still be around 335 on the DD dyno, which is what Smog is making on race gas.

5) what exactly is this truth that i know? post some performance numbers slick.

alex_alex

iTrader: (7)

1) i for one think its great that you've done so much research. Unfortunately, if those same research skills led you to get the atp turbo, i can't say i have much confidence in them. But then again, you were "the first ATP turbo kit" !!

2) i don't how what "spouse to upgrade" means, please explain.

3) when you decide to go with the piper's, and they break, and you can't seem to find any replacements anywhere, and you don't really know whats wrong with them b/c hardly anyone has tested them out, PM me and i'll give you $5 towards a set of HKS cams. Personally, i wouldn't buy a product unless it has been tested over and over again with proven results. I figured you woulda already learned once, with the ATP turbo.

4) ***If my HKS cams won't help out a bigger turbo, then I worry 10 times more about the quality of your ATP turbo. Check this. IE EVO's Vishnu STage 3 with the 3037 makes 430 hp on c16, full spool by around 4000. He's got HKS cams. If those cams aren't of any help, then there's no reason we can't compare his turbo numbers to your "camless" turbo numbers. His makes about 70-80 hp more than yours, and spools sooner than yours.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Let's sort apples and oranges just for the sake of clarity and get our dyno numbers synchronized. Likewise, since C16 can inflate power numbers by 50whp or more, let's leave that out of the equation and stick with pump fuel for a minute.

For starters, valve overlap can be dialed in and out with cam gears, and this is one key reason for having adjustable cam gears. Like many other things, dialing overlap in or out usually gets you something at the expense of something else. Furthermore, the Piper Road Cams have right about the same effective duration as the HKS 272 set, with 3 deg more on the intake, and 3 deg less on the exhaust (so it's pretty much dead even with the HSK 272 set).

I have the Vishnu Stg 1 setup with cams and 10.5t. I'm making ~300whp on a DD, which equates to ~360hp on a Dynojet. This is with a catalytic converter and on 93 oct. I'm told I can tweak maybe another 15 DD whp with a few key parts and that's about the end for this turbo (~380 Dynojet whp). As per my recollection, I've told by more than one source that with the ATP kit, I can expect ~350 or so DD whp with the ATP kit (~420 Dynojet whp), and that's about all.

If my recollection is correct and this does turn out to be the case, the ATP kit is not a worthwhile upgrade for those of us with the 10.5t turbo ($900). However, ATP uses their own housing, and the other kits that use the Honeywell(?) housing (but cost more) apparently are making more power - like 20 DD whp more.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

370whp on a Dynojet is ~310 on a DD dyno.

Az3ar

iTrader: (18)

Alex you don’t make sense at all. My turbo will make more power than your little 16G no matter what you think period. I am making same power as you and even more now with no cams. You just hit the brick wall I have not. Your TME turbo is not going any where after this point at all my turbo is going far. Do you truly think that I can’t hit the 420~450 WHP on dynojet with my turbo?? Because if you don’t then you are truly mistaken. As I have said above some one made 395 almost 400WHP with my turbo on stock manifold on C16 and I have the dyno sheet but I can’t post them. Think whatever you want people have ridden in my car and always get out and say that’s our next upgrade. I don’t care what you think period. About the cams the piper will have much higher duration and lift causing higher air flow. If you think for 1 sec that the 16G TME is a match for the 3071 in making power in a straight line then you are way wrong.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

One can't go by numbers quoted using C16 where pump fuel comparisons are concerned, so quoting an ATP 3071 making 395 DJ whp on C16 doesn't seem all that impressive when a pump fuel 10.5t can get to around 380 DJ whp.

An ATP 3071r will make more power than a 10.5t, period. Although, it doesn't seem to make enough extra power to warrant the price for those who already have the 10.5t. Again, the other 3071 kits will apparently make more still, but the price tag goes way up.

Az3ar

iTrader: (18)

What smog is making on race C16 I believe and I am making it on 98 max and maybe a little less since my tank had 2G of 91 when the mix was made. I have never tried C16 on my turbo and I have been told by many people that C16 leaded will make night any day difference. Think about it lets say I am making 335 WHP on DD with 98 gas what would I be making on C16?? Holy cow add 15 to 20 WHP more that will put me @ 355 only 30 WHP behind IE right?? Now what would happen when I just slapped my manifold in and some nice set of cams along with cam gears..... Go figure

Az3ar

iTrader: (18)

You are right.. I am not expecting my turbo to make more than 40 to 50 WHP more than the TME. I am looking at 420WHP to 450WHP on dynojet. Of course if you have stage 1+ to start with I don’t think its a good idea to buy this turbo (just like trading your EVO for an MR) but if your car is stock this turbo is a great upgrade..

Az3ar

iTrader: (18)

I have never seen 380WHP on TME turbo with pump gas on dynojet?? would you have dyno charts??

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

380whp on a dynojet is ~315whp on a DD. Presently, I am right about 300 DD whp with a catalytic converter, and will make another 10-15whp with the cat delete.

alex_alex

iTrader: (7)

1) I don't have the TME turbo. I have the 10.5 housing that cost $220.

2) I never said the 16g can make more power than the atp 3071, what i AM saying is that many aftermarket GT turbos make MUCH MORE than the ATP does, and theres no question about it. The ATP is by no means cost efficient, b/c with the VIshnu Stages you are building up to a large turbo, and there is very little overlap other than the 10.5 housing itself.

3) BOTTOM LINE: Why don't you shut us all up by posting up some times. Talk is cheap. "I can beat a porsche turbo on the freeway" is also cheap. Lets see some times.

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

AFAIK, I would expect to see ~420 DJ whp (~350 DD whp) from your ATP setup with supporting mods, and ~450 DJ whp (~375 DJ whp) from the 3071 turbo found in the more expensive kits. I will be curious to see what you get, as well as anyone else who follows suit.

evolife04

iTrader: (9)

wow .. this turned into a big issue .. what we need to do is the same dyno and same day and see what it puts out.. the big key to any set up is tuning.. i have been spending alot of time at AEM where my car is being used to set a new base template for the EMS .. i have a great base for the EMS which will be loaded into the new kit coming out after a little more tweaking.. the low idle and low end stuff is very nice my car idle's so nice.. i am looking forward to the kit.. the only thing i dont like is the fact the down pipe sits so close to the oil pan but should be cool..

Az3ar

iTrader: (18)

if you call 10~20 WHP much more then you are weird . I will take my car to the track very soon to shut you up forever