Reliability
Dec 13, 2002, 04:04 PM
#16
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Originally posted by CooperAWD
Air you smoking crack?
I dont see any 250hp+ 4 cylinder honda cars straight from the factory... Hell, You hardly see many 300hp modified (no power-adder) hondas, am i right?
And what twin turbo car were you speaking of? there isnt a stock honda engine really close to the stock 320hp of a supra, 255hp FD rx7, WRX STI... etc
the only thing that gives honda cars a decent chance at the track is the fact that they often weigh under 2800lbs, which of course has nothing to do with the engine.
Air you smoking crack?
I dont see any 250hp+ 4 cylinder honda cars straight from the factory... Hell, You hardly see many 300hp modified (no power-adder) hondas, am i right?
And what twin turbo car were you speaking of? there isnt a stock honda engine really close to the stock 320hp of a supra, 255hp FD rx7, WRX STI... etc
the only thing that gives honda cars a decent chance at the track is the fact that they often weigh under 2800lbs, which of course has nothing to do with the engine.
Dec 13, 2002, 04:48 PM
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the NSX doesn't handle a ****LOAD better than anything. When you're comparing the NSX to the Rx7, skyline, and evo, it comes down to the drivers stock for stock.
Dec 13, 2002, 09:21 PM
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I never compared it to the skyline and Evo, and i just think its sad that you guys are dissing on Honda cuz they dont have turbo's when a NA car could keep up and even win against turbo cars. Its sad to me how companies have to have twin turbo's in there cars to keep up against NA. I'm not saying that any of those cars are bad, skyline is my favorite car, and i want to get the evo, but I don't think you should be dissing on Honda's at all.
Dec 13, 2002, 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by I4K20C
Your right that no stock Honda car has even 255 HP, but wahts sad is that the engine isn't everything! The NSX is a much greater car than the supra or Rx7 will ever be, it handles a ****load better, and its alot nicer.... If your talking about going on a str8 line dont know as much, but handeling wise... I'd choose NSX anyday. Yeah, the Rx7 has 255 hp, but there is also alot of maitance required with that 255.
Your right that no stock Honda car has even 255 HP, but wahts sad is that the engine isn't everything! The NSX is a much greater car than the supra or Rx7 will ever be, it handles a ****load better, and its alot nicer.... If your talking about going on a str8 line dont know as much, but handeling wise... I'd choose NSX anyday. Yeah, the Rx7 has 255 hp, but there is also alot of maitance required with that 255.
NSX Lateral G's : 0.93
rx7 Lateral G's : .98
Supra Lateral G's .98... Etc
Feel free to correct my numbers.
The more you look at a NSX the more it seems over priced... Compare it to a z06 vette that does 1.0+ G's on the skid pad, has over 150% the HP with much more modification potential than the NSX, and cost $20-30K less, i think i'll choose that.
But i guess all the NSX and (all hondas for that matter) need to handle better than every car on the road is a big aluminum picnic table bolted to the rear of the car.
(sarcastic)
Dec 13, 2002, 09:51 PM
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I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say!!! Yes, the NSX is 50x more expensive but there is a reason for that. I think its impressive, not that its a better value, but very impresive that they can make the car just as good as the other cars with N/A!!!!! Don't you think that is a little bit impressive!!!!
Dec 13, 2002, 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by I4K20C
I never compared it to the skyline and Evo, and i just think its sad that you guys are dissing on Honda cuz they dont have turbo's when a NA car could keep up and even win against turbo cars. Its sad to me how companies have to have twin turbo's in there cars to keep up against NA. I'm not saying that any of those cars are bad, skyline is my favorite car, and i want to get the evo, but I don't think you should be dissing on Honda's at all.
I never compared it to the skyline and Evo, and i just think its sad that you guys are dissing on Honda cuz they dont have turbo's when a NA car could keep up and even win against turbo cars. Its sad to me how companies have to have twin turbo's in there cars to keep up against NA. I'm not saying that any of those cars are bad, skyline is my favorite car, and i want to get the evo, but I don't think you should be dissing on Honda's at all.
Whats so impressive about a N/A 6cylinder engine that makes 250-280 HP? Its not like thats rare or anything.
Last edited by CooperAWD; Dec 13, 2002 at 10:04 PM.
Dec 14, 2002, 03:18 PM
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NSX: Supra, Skyline, RX7...
Integra Type R: WRX
I can find out about more if you really want me too... those are the ones i know of the top of my head...
Integra Type R: WRX
I can find out about more if you really want me too... those are the ones i know of the top of my head...
Dec 14, 2002, 11:32 PM
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Originally posted by I4K20C
NSX: Supra, Skyline, RX7...
Integra Type R: WRX
I can find out about more if you really want me too... those are the ones i know of the top of my head...
NSX: Supra, Skyline, RX7...
Integra Type R: WRX
I can find out about more if you really want me too... those are the ones i know of the top of my head...
...well i'm going to stop arguing if you cant come up with a decent answer... your doing nothing more than repeating your opinions that have allready been dissprooved.
Dec 15, 2002, 02:20 AM
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Easy, guys 
Anything over 100 hp per litre is very good for a NA conforming to modern western anti pollution regulations, and there are only a few cars like that, ie M3, Honda Civic Type R, Honda S2000 to name a few. I test drove a Honda Civic Type R a month ago and I can tell you it is a very good small car: the shell is stiff, the steering is quick, the driver involvement is almost total. It's FWD and not that fast, of course, but it's a lot of fun and Honda engines are known worldwide for their reliability.
I am sure a lot of American cars are faster than many Hondas, or even all Hondas, on the quarter mile, but the handling is much less good indeed; it isnt only a question of lateral G, but also of weight, brakes, suspension setup, body stiffness, etc.
Other than that, I fail to see how a car would be less good just because it is assembled in the USA rather than in Japan. It's a matter of specification, not geography or nationality, right?
Anything over 100 hp per litre is very good for a NA conforming to modern western anti pollution regulations, and there are only a few cars like that, ie M3, Honda Civic Type R, Honda S2000 to name a few. I test drove a Honda Civic Type R a month ago and I can tell you it is a very good small car: the shell is stiff, the steering is quick, the driver involvement is almost total. It's FWD and not that fast, of course, but it's a lot of fun and Honda engines are known worldwide for their reliability.
I am sure a lot of American cars are faster than many Hondas, or even all Hondas, on the quarter mile, but the handling is much less good indeed; it isnt only a question of lateral G, but also of weight, brakes, suspension setup, body stiffness, etc.
Other than that, I fail to see how a car would be less good just because it is assembled in the USA rather than in Japan. It's a matter of specification, not geography or nationality, right?
Dec 15, 2002, 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Claudius
Easy, guys
Anything over 100 hp per litre is very good for a NA conforming to modern western anti pollution regulations, and there are only a few cars like that, ie M3, Honda Civic Type R, Honda S2000 to name a few. I test drove a Honda Civic Type R a month ago and I can tell you it is a very good small car: the shell is stiff, the steering is quick, the driver involvement is almost total. It's FWD and not that fast, of course, but it's a lot of fun and Honda engines are known worldwide for their reliability.
I am sure a lot of American cars are faster than many Hondas, or even all Hondas, on the quarter mile, but the handling is much less good indeed; it isnt only a question of lateral G, but also of weight, brakes, suspension setup, body stiffness, etc.
Other than that, I fail to see how a car would be less good just because it is assembled in the USA rather than in Japan. It's a matter of specification, not geography or nationality, right?
Easy, guys
Anything over 100 hp per litre is very good for a NA conforming to modern western anti pollution regulations, and there are only a few cars like that, ie M3, Honda Civic Type R, Honda S2000 to name a few. I test drove a Honda Civic Type R a month ago and I can tell you it is a very good small car: the shell is stiff, the steering is quick, the driver involvement is almost total. It's FWD and not that fast, of course, but it's a lot of fun and Honda engines are known worldwide for their reliability.
I am sure a lot of American cars are faster than many Hondas, or even all Hondas, on the quarter mile, but the handling is much less good indeed; it isnt only a question of lateral G, but also of weight, brakes, suspension setup, body stiffness, etc.
Other than that, I fail to see how a car would be less good just because it is assembled in the USA rather than in Japan. It's a matter of specification, not geography or nationality, right?
They handle better, they have a better suspension... Most Type-R owners don't even upgrade their suspension since it does so good!! They have better ratios, they have more space for improvment, they have less weight but still with having all the essential needs.... Does that answer your question?
Dec 16, 2002, 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Claudius
it isnt only a question of lateral G, but also of weight, brakes, suspension setup, body stiffness, etc.
Other than that, I fail to see how a car would be less good just because it is assembled in the USA rather than in Japan. It's a matter of specification, not geography or nationality, right?
it isnt only a question of lateral G, but also of weight, brakes, suspension setup, body stiffness, etc.
Other than that, I fail to see how a car would be less good just because it is assembled in the USA rather than in Japan. It's a matter of specification, not geography or nationality, right?
Yes its an "accomplishment" for a motor manufacture to have an effiecent engine with a high hp vs dissplacement ratio... but is it really neccisary when it comes to whats at the track with real people? sure exotics boast of there high numbers, but does that make the engine any better (not in an efficent sense) than one with more displacment that makes equal or greater power? I surely dont think it does...
As far as my usage of lateral G's in respects to the handeling of cars mentioned, its probably the easiest way to compare a cars overall handeling (chasis stiffness, suspension setup (stock) etc). I've driven honda's as well, they're okay... but i surely dont think they are that great compared to other cars in there class. The only place that they exceed most other cars in there class is in price (they are usually pretty cheap), which the NSX surely dose not, and reliabilty (like i said before, how hard is it for a 180hp n/a I4 engine to be reliable). Of course the honda cars are usually a tad bit lighter. But braking would be compared in its own way (100-0 length etc).
I'm pretty sure that almost everyone here will agree that an wrx, evo etc handles better than an ITR, or any other honda this side of 50 grand for that matter. concerning the NSX, it might be considered in the same group of the Rx7, Supra etc, but that dosent necisarly mean its keeping up which i would think it should considering it costs a lot more than all cars mentioned.
IK240, what proof do you really have that these honda cars handle better? have you ever driven one? Have you actually ever watched a race with these cars in them? i surely have, seeing that i pitcrewed for a supra.
What i can deffinatly say is that most honda cars (NSX & ITR) with respect handling and HP dont have the huge room for improvment like you say... when you compare it to a supra, skyline, and rx7... all three of which can make HUGE hp numbers 800-1000+ with little more than turbo and fuel upgrades, and often win there class in most races (handeling).
To me it just seems like a common missconception that the nsx is such a great car, much like the viper here in america... the average person praises it, but those who actually watch them race see that they usually dont finish a race in the front pack, if at all.
Overall i believe a cars handeling should complement its HP and vise-versa... A car with lots of hp (any drag car for example) isnt exactly the most fun to drive, while a car with very little hp and great handeling traits (ie miati etc) isnt great fun either. Some people prefer more of one than the other (like ik's argument i suppose) but the cars that should get the most praise should be the ones that have both, a well balanced car with a great engine thats strong on the strait aways but is also gracefull threw the curves.
Dec 19, 2002, 09:24 PM
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DSM crank walk or thrust baring failure is talked about more than anything... i'm not saying it dosent happen, but it surely dosent happen as much as its played up to. Besides, its only the 2g's that have that problem, apart from small problem with the t-case leaking on some 1g's (recalled & fixed by mitsu) there isnt any problems there
DSMs are only as reliable as they were taken care of...most DSMS are 2nd to 3rd to maybe even 5th hand like mine...and im damn sure the 1st owner (some old dude) of my car didnt take the extreme care of the car most DSMs call for...damn i hate my car sometimes....all the problems..thats why im getting me an EVO7
oh and cooperawd, my bad bro...im not trying to correct YOU in particular..lol...just noticed this was the 2nd post of urs i corrected...pz