Cracked Piston #2..WTH?
Dec 14, 2004, 06:28 AM
#61
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Wow... are we seeing the limits of the stock pistons? I know some folks have pumped out gobs of power with stock internals but this makes me wonder how consistant the quality of the pistons are. It seems that you could be playing Russian roulette.
Dec 14, 2004, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by propellerhead
Wow... are we seeing the limits of the stock pistons? I know some folks have pumped out gobs of power with stock internals but this makes me wonder how consistant the quality of the pistons are. It seems that you could be playing Russian roulette.
In all honesty I would rather it being the pistions over the rods. When rods fail it's a much more expensive fix. This is not good at all but atleast the weaker link in the car are not the rods.
Dec 14, 2004, 09:00 PM
#63
Originally Posted by TD05HR
hey
Yeah it looks like a clean cracked...although 2morrow i'm gonna try and find the piece missing from the piston.. doubt i could find it though...prob. went out the exhuast...
Yeah it looks like a clean cracked...although 2morrow i'm gonna try and find the piece missing from the piston.. doubt i could find it though...prob. went out the exhuast...
Dec 14, 2004, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by machron1
If it went through your exhaust, and didn't happen to slip through the wastegate, you probably took out your whole turbine wheel or at least tore it up pretty good.
Dec 14, 2004, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by DynoFlash
I am sorry to hear of your problems. This is the first I am hearing of this, feel free to call me if you need any help. Its regeatable to see any evo owner have these kind of problems.
The stock evo pistons are a known weak area, however, we have seen them last very well on your level of whp. So far, we have even pushed 500 whp on them and no problems.
I strongly advise everyone to maintain a max 20.5 - 21 psi on pump gas. If you try and push higher than that on pump gas you can get the fmic heat soaked and detonation can result. Especially, when doing pulls back to back in a racing situation, (fmic begins to heat soak and collant temps rise) if anything the boost should be set a tad lower, maybe 20 psi. When racing on pump gas, 22 psi and a bad load of gas can result in knocking which presents tremendous shock loads across the face of the piston. Such a knock event may expose a piston with a casting flaw, or even a perfect stock piston as they are quite weak. I have seen excelent reliability on the Dyno Flash tuned ecus and this is the very first instance I have seen of this kind of failure out of the 950 plus ecus I have out there.
If you need any assistance with getting replacement pistons - I can provide you with a free set (I have many) and I can get you all the other things you may need at cost . I would like to come by and take a look at your engine if you don't mind - please give me a call when you get a chance.
The stock evo pistons are a known weak area, however, we have seen them last very well on your level of whp. So far, we have even pushed 500 whp on them and no problems.
I strongly advise everyone to maintain a max 20.5 - 21 psi on pump gas. If you try and push higher than that on pump gas you can get the fmic heat soaked and detonation can result. Especially, when doing pulls back to back in a racing situation, (fmic begins to heat soak and collant temps rise) if anything the boost should be set a tad lower, maybe 20 psi. When racing on pump gas, 22 psi and a bad load of gas can result in knocking which presents tremendous shock loads across the face of the piston. Such a knock event may expose a piston with a casting flaw, or even a perfect stock piston as they are quite weak. I have seen excelent reliability on the Dyno Flash tuned ecus and this is the very first instance I have seen of this kind of failure out of the 950 plus ecus I have out there.
If you need any assistance with getting replacement pistons - I can provide you with a free set (I have many) and I can get you all the other things you may need at cost . I would like to come by and take a look at your engine if you don't mind - please give me a call when you get a chance.
Dec 14, 2004, 09:45 PM
#66
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For everyones info one this post when I was racing on my 110oct map and (KNOCK CONTROL WAS OFF) I had severe detanation on #4 piston causing a peace of it to go threw my whole enigine, inclufing the head, and turbo....so good luck in this.....jsut make sure to check everything. Because anything could have happened.
Dec 14, 2004, 09:48 PM
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Your #3 looks just like mine did, now that I looked at it.........make sure you check everything.......its not to bad on cost give David Buschur a call Im sure he can help. He rebuilded mine in 2 days head and all for a really good deal. Good luck again.
Dec 15, 2004, 12:48 PM
#68
I think that this is the limit of the stock pistons, I tossed my engine for the SECOND time yesturday. The first time was a rod bolt, this time it was DEFINATLY a piston letting go. Put a fist sized hole in the front and the back of the block when the piston let go and shattered, once this happened the rod pulled out and pumeled itself into a flailing chunk that took out the block. It was not due to detonation either, the other three are perfect and the A/F was not tuned, i.e. I had it on the dyno at FIS a month ago and the highest A/F was 10.5 with not a hint of knock. When the head was built last time some of the valve stem seal were bad and some oil was going through the chambers, not much but enough that I did not want to tune the Xede until it was fixed, the shop just had not had time to pull it yet. I will post some pics so that you can see the damage, but detonation had nothing to do with this, just a stock piston letting go at high HP/RPM's. It was running about 7213 RPM's or so when it went, at least according to the HKS type 1 peak rpm feature. The good news is that the head is not bad, two bent valves, and I have another block. I was putting down about 350 whp and while some people are getting away with these power levels on the stock components, some others will not. And we are seeing more and more of those who "are not". I already took the head and the other block to the machine shop and am in the process of ordering forged rods and pistons. This **** is getting old......
Dec 15, 2004, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by joeycoates
I think that this is the limit of the stock pistons, I tossed my engine for the SECOND time yesturday. The first time was a rod bolt, this time it was DEFINATLY a piston letting go. Put a fist sized hole in the front and the back of the block when the piston let go and shattered, once this happened the rod pulled out and pumeled itself into a flailing chunk that took out the block. It was not due to detonation either, the other three are perfect and the A/F was not tuned, i.e. I had it on the dyno at FIS a month ago and the highest A/F was 10.5 with not a hint of knock. When the head was built last time some of the valve stem seal were bad and some oil was going through the chambers, not much but enough that I did not want to tune the Xede until it was fixed, the shop just had not had time to pull it yet. I will post some pics so that you can see the damage, but detonation had nothing to do with this, just a stock piston letting go at high HP/RPM's. It was running about 7213 RPM's or so when it went, at least according to the HKS type 1 peak rpm feature. The good news is that the head is not bad, two bent valves, and I have another block. I was putting down about 350 whp and while some people are getting away with these power levels on the stock components, some others will not. And we are seeing more and more of those who "are not". I already took the head and the other block to the machine shop and am in the process of ordering forged rods and pistons. This **** is getting old......
Dec 15, 2004, 02:53 PM
#71
The pictures are hard to tell by but the top of the cylinder wall on the hurt cylinder looks like the car detonated. The picture is not clear and it may be shine and not aluminum.
Also, looks as if the stock rod may have just broke and then beat the center of the piston out.
Hard to say what happened.
The stock shortblock in these cars is DAMN stout. We have made 550 whp with the '03 and have not hurt anything with an untouched stock bottom end. Even the fasteners were stock.
I don't believe 7500 rpm or even 400 whp in a properly tuned EVO is going to hurt anything.
Just my opinion.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Also, looks as if the stock rod may have just broke and then beat the center of the piston out.
Hard to say what happened.
The stock shortblock in these cars is DAMN stout. We have made 550 whp with the '03 and have not hurt anything with an untouched stock bottom end. Even the fasteners were stock.
I don't believe 7500 rpm or even 400 whp in a properly tuned EVO is going to hurt anything.
Just my opinion.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Dec 15, 2004, 05:08 PM
#72
Hmm.... That is aluminum on the cylinder wall, but the car was running at a 10.5:1 A/F ratio at the leanest. I ran about 6 pulls on an awd Mustang dyno just to make sure that the mixture was not too lean, all of the way up to fuel/rpm cutoff. Listened for det and there was none to very little. Now, that being said, my fiance used the car over the weekend while I had her suv out of town, but she called before she filled it and I told her to use 93. I wonder if there is any way to tell? Damn I would be PISSED...... None of the other cylinders show any sign of detonation, nor do the plugs. I took the head to my machinist here in Dallas along with some various bits and pieces. This is the first time he has seen the inside of an Evo, but he has other 4G63's all over the place. He was rather suprised that the Evo rods were smaller then the first gens, but the first gen rods are pretty stout. The reason that I posted on this thread is that the stock piston looks like it split right in the middle, but who knows. I do knowthat the top of the connecting rod where the wrist pin goes through is slightly oblonged, and that the wrist pin is still in it. I found the top of the rod out on the road where it went south, shot it straight out of the block. I kind of would like to have the gas tested to see what the octane is, but I kind of don't, I would be sooo irate if it were 87 or 89......
Dec 15, 2004, 07:23 PM
#73
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OMG...man..and here i'm *****ing about my cracked piston...sorry to here man...i know exactly how you feel...
i just hope no more of this is gonna pop up...it might be the end of the stout 4g63 as we know it....i dont think so though....
let us know your progress.....
i just hope no more of this is gonna pop up...it might be the end of the stout 4g63 as we know it....i dont think so though....
let us know your progress.....
Dec 15, 2004, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TD05HR
OMG...man..and here i'm *****ing about my cracked piston...sorry to here man...i know exactly how you feel...
i just hope no more of this is gonna pop up...it might be the end of the stout 4g63 as we know it....i dont think so though....
let us know your progress.....
i just hope no more of this is gonna pop up...it might be the end of the stout 4g63 as we know it....i dont think so though....
let us know your progress.....
Dec 20, 2004, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TD05HR
OMG...man..and here i'm *****ing about my cracked piston...sorry to here man...i know exactly how you feel...
i just hope no more of this is gonna pop up...it might be the end of the stout 4g63 as we know it....i dont think so though....
let us know your progress.....
i just hope no more of this is gonna pop up...it might be the end of the stout 4g63 as we know it....i dont think so though....
let us know your progress.....
See ya at the DSG.
-N