comparing manifolds
Jan 22, 2005 | 07:16 PM
#61
Come On Ryan are you that boneheaded or are you just blind? I AM NOT ripping on your manifold or your parts, I do think it is improper to advertise/market things the way you are though. Time for an education.
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Chapter 1, Math 101. Here is how I see your manifold by the pic you attached to this thread.
The bends you are using have a 2.25" radius. So that leaves a CL length of 3.97" The 45 degree bends have a slightly larger radius, but the difference is negligible for the point I am trying to show you.
Runners 1&4 look to use 3 90's and 1 45. That comes to a runner length of 14", rounded to a whole number for the math impaired.
Runners 2&3 look to use the same 3 90's and 1 45 with an additional 2-3" straight section to make that stretch to the head flange. So I'll go with the lower number or 2"(50mm) to make you feel a little better. That leaves Runners 2&3 at a CL length of 16".
Can you tell me where you derive equal length from? And if you are measuring them and are getting the same numbers for each runner, you need to buy a new tape measure.
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On to your manifolds never cracking. Are you sure about that? I've been in the EVO scene a short time and already know of one of your pieces cracking. This tid bit came from a very reputable shop, and I now know for a fact that I was not being mislead.
No big deal, $hit happens. Maybe the customer didn't inform you and send the manifold back to take advantage of your lifetime warranty.
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Lets get one thing clear about this manifold you speak of. It was built on the fly by special request from a customer and it had to be done promptly. IMO I think it is an abortion, but it is exactly what was asked for and needed to work with the car and turbo, I have no shame about it, bring it up. Go down to RRE and take some pictures of it and post them. That manifold start to finish was done in 2-1/2 hours.
Would you like me to tie your shoes for you also? Runners 2, 3, and 4 share the exact same bends in the exact same quantity. THe #1 runner has one 90 degree elbow replaced by a straight section 2.75" long and has one extra very short bend near the collector. Do math and you figure out of they are equal or not.
Oh yea, I'm still waiting on pics on the best collector industry.
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Chapter 1, Math 101. Here is how I see your manifold by the pic you attached to this thread.
The bends you are using have a 2.25" radius. So that leaves a CL length of 3.97" The 45 degree bends have a slightly larger radius, but the difference is negligible for the point I am trying to show you.
Runners 1&4 look to use 3 90's and 1 45. That comes to a runner length of 14", rounded to a whole number for the math impaired.
Runners 2&3 look to use the same 3 90's and 1 45 with an additional 2-3" straight section to make that stretch to the head flange. So I'll go with the lower number or 2"(50mm) to make you feel a little better. That leaves Runners 2&3 at a CL length of 16".
Can you tell me where you derive equal length from? And if you are measuring them and are getting the same numbers for each runner, you need to buy a new tape measure.
------------------------------------
On to your manifolds never cracking. Are you sure about that? I've been in the EVO scene a short time and already know of one of your pieces cracking. This tid bit came from a very reputable shop, and I now know for a fact that I was not being mislead.
No big deal, $hit happens. Maybe the customer didn't inform you and send the manifold back to take advantage of your lifetime warranty.
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Originally Posted by RnR Racing
Shearer, several people have seen your manifolds now. It doesn't compare is quality or design. At least this is what I have been told from about 4-5 different people. 3 of them don't even have our kit or have any interest in it.
Originally Posted by RnR Racing
Also how do you know your manifold is equal length? I would like to hear how you know everyone is equal length before it leaves.
Oh yea, I'm still waiting on pics on the best collector industry.
Jan 22, 2005 | 08:10 PM
#64
Since you are so great at Math what are you using to measure your lengths. I am done arguing with you. There is no point in it at all.
We sell the best manifold in the industry. You might not like the fact that it is so popular and you are going to say whatever you can to discredit it. Our manifold looks awesome and performs just as well.
We sell the best manifold in the industry. You might not like the fact that it is so popular and you are going to say whatever you can to discredit it. Our manifold looks awesome and performs just as well.
Last edited by RnR Racing; Jan 22, 2005 at 08:26 PM.
Jan 22, 2005 | 11:35 PM
#66
No one manifold manufacturer is going to say that the other guys stuff is better. So it is no surprise that you guys disagree.
Obsevation. If I had a lifetime warantee on a manifold, and it cracked, I would definatly call upon that warantee. Even if I stopped liking the kit and decided on a new one, I'd still get the new manifold and at least sell it. So you can see how that "I know some reputable shop that has seen...." sounds like BS. I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time in my life, but it does sound fishy.
Ryan is a good guy and does alot to help people out. He puts alot on the line with this lifetime warantee thing and he has delivered quality to many happy customers. I see alot of bickering here over nothing.
That's right, you people are bickering about stupid garbage. I am not going to put either of these manifolds on my car and find some missing 100whp or 500rpms of spool. RnR makes a great manifold. Enough people have had enough success with it to make that really stupid to dispute.
Shearer, I bet you do great work too. I wouldn't judge you on one manifold, because $hit happens and things don't allways go the way we want. Here's the thing though. You come off like a real condescending jerk. You may do great work, but is that really enough for you to talk down to people the way you've done here? Especially to a guy as helpful and good hearted as Ryan, you sound like a pretty bad person from here. This has nothing to do with manifolds anymore. You are making it a personal issue and task for you to discredit RnR's work.
This is a big problem with the internet. I wonder just how many people besides me are sick of this bullsh!t yet. Grow up. Sell your parts. Help out a community of people who have the same interests as you do. We don't all have to agree, nor do we all have to be friends, but we can learn and grow and be a hell of a lot more constructive than we are being right now.
Obsevation. If I had a lifetime warantee on a manifold, and it cracked, I would definatly call upon that warantee. Even if I stopped liking the kit and decided on a new one, I'd still get the new manifold and at least sell it. So you can see how that "I know some reputable shop that has seen...." sounds like BS. I could be wrong, and it wouldn't be the first time in my life, but it does sound fishy.
Ryan is a good guy and does alot to help people out. He puts alot on the line with this lifetime warantee thing and he has delivered quality to many happy customers. I see alot of bickering here over nothing.
That's right, you people are bickering about stupid garbage. I am not going to put either of these manifolds on my car and find some missing 100whp or 500rpms of spool. RnR makes a great manifold. Enough people have had enough success with it to make that really stupid to dispute.
Shearer, I bet you do great work too. I wouldn't judge you on one manifold, because $hit happens and things don't allways go the way we want. Here's the thing though. You come off like a real condescending jerk. You may do great work, but is that really enough for you to talk down to people the way you've done here? Especially to a guy as helpful and good hearted as Ryan, you sound like a pretty bad person from here. This has nothing to do with manifolds anymore. You are making it a personal issue and task for you to discredit RnR's work.
This is a big problem with the internet. I wonder just how many people besides me are sick of this bullsh!t yet. Grow up. Sell your parts. Help out a community of people who have the same interests as you do. We don't all have to agree, nor do we all have to be friends, but we can learn and grow and be a hell of a lot more constructive than we are being right now.
Jan 22, 2005 | 11:53 PM
#67
Originally Posted by RnR Racing
Since you are so great at Math what are you using to measure your lengths.
Again, I'm not knocking his work, his personality, or his customer service. I am raising the issue on his marketing and advertising of this product, that is all nothing more. I've used the "ramhorn" design on a few manifolds I've built. It works, it is simple and effective. Sweet dreams...
Jan 23, 2005 | 05:48 AM
#68
You really do "come off as a condescending jerk"! Just sell your products on their own merit and let others do the same. The free market will wade through the BS.
Originally Posted by Shearer
A drawing, calculator, and some elementary math skills is all that is needed. Measurements for those bends are readily available if you know where to look.
Again, I'm not knocking his work, his personality, or his customer service. I am raising the issue on his marketing and advertising of this product, that is all nothing more. I've used the "ramhorn" design on a few manifolds I've built. It works, it is simple and effective. Sweet dreams...
Again, I'm not knocking his work, his personality, or his customer service. I am raising the issue on his marketing and advertising of this product, that is all nothing more. I've used the "ramhorn" design on a few manifolds I've built. It works, it is simple and effective. Sweet dreams...
Jan 23, 2005 | 09:42 AM
#69
Originally Posted by Shearer
I've used the "ramhorn" design on a few manifolds I've built. It works, it is simple and effective. Sweet dreams...
Jan 23, 2005 | 10:40 AM
#70
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Spec C
What about the ramhorn don't you like? You say you have used it, what made you move on to your current design?
which makes other vendors unequal length manifold sellers
Jan 23, 2005 | 10:53 AM
#72
Originally Posted by MiSTER2
Sorry to hijack this thread but, can someone answer the following for the not so technical head like myself.
What are the advantages of having aftermarket manifold?
Do we sacrifice bottom end power(or spool up) to gain some top end?
Is it ok to use an aftermarket manifold with stock turbo? or is it unnecessary for the stock turbo?
Surely there has to be some disadvantages in changing the manifold (other than the cost).
I know nothing beats the stock manifold interms of reliablility. Buschur and APS manifolds look like they are made by mitsubishi.
Once again my apologies for the hijack, i can open a seperate thread if you guys like.
What are the advantages of having aftermarket manifold?
Do we sacrifice bottom end power(or spool up) to gain some top end?
Is it ok to use an aftermarket manifold with stock turbo? or is it unnecessary for the stock turbo?
Surely there has to be some disadvantages in changing the manifold (other than the cost).
I know nothing beats the stock manifold interms of reliablility. Buschur and APS manifolds look like they are made by mitsubishi.
Once again my apologies for the hijack, i can open a seperate thread if you guys like.
and quit *****ing and get the **** over it
Jan 23, 2005 | 11:20 AM
#73
Spec C, I don't dislike the ramhorn. I wanted something that would fit within the factory space without having to supply extra parts to make it work and something dead nuts equal length. Due to the upper radiator hose routing, a "ramhorn" style manifold and the upper hose interfere and supplying a new upper hose becomes a neccesity.
Mister2/K.Lowe - The aftermarket manifolds mentioned in this thread are for aftermarket turbo upgrades, mainly focused on Garrett flanged T3 turbo's. These turbos are more common and make switching or upgrading turbo's much easier and cheaper. Mitsubishi's selection of the twin scroll turbine housing makes upgrading to something larger more difficult and expensive. However Buschur is addressing this issue with his 20g upgrade for use with the stock housings.
Generally speaking some sacrifice in spool is sacrificed for more top end. There are a wide variety of variables that play a part in this though. There are turbos out there that will supply stock spool up and more top end power, but the bigger turbo you go to some sacrifice in spool happens.
I can not honestly answer this. I have not done any testing yet or have read anywhere whether an aftermarket manifold has given any gains or not. Hopefully I will be able to give some feedback on this in a few weeks.
No apologies needed, they were good honest questions. I hope I answered them good enough for you.
Mister2/K.Lowe - The aftermarket manifolds mentioned in this thread are for aftermarket turbo upgrades, mainly focused on Garrett flanged T3 turbo's. These turbos are more common and make switching or upgrading turbo's much easier and cheaper. Mitsubishi's selection of the twin scroll turbine housing makes upgrading to something larger more difficult and expensive. However Buschur is addressing this issue with his 20g upgrade for use with the stock housings.
Generally speaking some sacrifice in spool is sacrificed for more top end. There are a wide variety of variables that play a part in this though. There are turbos out there that will supply stock spool up and more top end power, but the bigger turbo you go to some sacrifice in spool happens.
I can not honestly answer this. I have not done any testing yet or have read anywhere whether an aftermarket manifold has given any gains or not. Hopefully I will be able to give some feedback on this in a few weeks.
No apologies needed, they were good honest questions. I hope I answered them good enough for you.
