EVO VIII Dyno Result!
Jan 27, 2003, 11:10 AM
#106
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this thread is pointless until someone buys an EVO8, dynoes it at the wheels, then yanks the motor, dynoes at the flywheel and gets a reading. flywheel hp is irrelevant, all you need to know is that it dynoes 230 to the wheels, who gives a **** what the drivetrain loss is? a 7 page thread for this is ridiculous 
correction..... 8 pages thanks to me
correction..... 8 pages thanks to me
Jan 27, 2003, 12:06 PM
#108
Originally posted by boostedwrx
im saying it doesnt have 230 at the wheels though. On that same dyno the WRX layed down 190 and thats WAY TO FREAKIN HIGH. So that means the "230" quoted for the EVO is also WAY TO FREAKING HIGH. Why kid yourselves.
im saying it doesnt have 230 at the wheels though. On that same dyno the WRX layed down 190 and thats WAY TO FREAKIN HIGH. So that means the "230" quoted for the EVO is also WAY TO FREAKING HIGH. Why kid yourselves.
Pointless, yes, but so is 90% of talking about cars. If there was a point, it wouldn't be much fun
Jan 27, 2003, 01:00 PM
#110
Evolved Member
Originally posted by boostedwrx
im saying it doesnt have 230 at the wheels though. On that same dyno the WRX layed down 190 and thats WAY TO FREAKIN HIGH. So that means the "230" quoted for the EVO is also WAY TO FREAKING HIGH. Why kid yourselves.
im saying it doesnt have 230 at the wheels though. On that same dyno the WRX layed down 190 and thats WAY TO FREAKIN HIGH. So that means the "230" quoted for the EVO is also WAY TO FREAKING HIGH. Why kid yourselves.
If you apply the same thing to the 230 HP number for the EVO, you get 273 HP for the flywheel power and everything is the way it should be!
Fedja
Jan 27, 2003, 01:25 PM
#111
Originally posted by boostedwrx
its resonable based on the WRX dyno at 190. Its just that 190 is too high for the WRX. So the 230 # is also to high for the stock EVOVIII. On a chasis dynometer, the EVOVIII will only pull ~200WHP stock... which kinda sucks ***
its resonable based on the WRX dyno at 190. Its just that 190 is too high for the WRX. So the 230 # is also to high for the stock EVOVIII. On a chasis dynometer, the EVOVIII will only pull ~200WHP stock... which kinda sucks ***
And yes, these dyno results would be easily obtained on any dyno.Seriously, the absolute number isn't very useful. At the end of the day (or month, at the rate of this debate), the Evo 8 is dynoing with 21% more power to the wheels than a WRX (230 vs 190). If you want to go with 200 for the Evo and 165 for the WRX, that's fine too. Or if you just want to quote the manufacturers' respective flywheel ratings (271 vs 224), go ahead. You'll note that these are all the EXACT SAME effect - the Evo8 has 21% more power.
271/224 = 1.212
230/190 = 1.210
200/165 = 1.211
366/302 = 1.212
What the hell was this thread about, anyway?
Jan 27, 2003, 01:49 PM
#112
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the radical difference in driveline losses seen on the WRX (190 vs 165 awhp) is the typical difference b/w different dynometers. mustang dynos typically record a much lower hp, where dynapacks and dynojets are a bit higher. the wrx's figures end up being around 16% and 26% of loss depending on the dyno.
from the typical AWD platform, expect to lose about 20% in the drivetrain. this puts the WRX at around 182 or so, right b/w the two extremes as far as dyno readings. mitsu VR owners are subject to a bit more, due to the extraordinary weight and heavy componants like brakes etc. they do not represent a good sample for TYPICAL driveline loss in AWD.
driveline loss cannot be determined by a fixed hp loss, or even a fixed % (although the % is typically a better representation) b/c as you increase hp, many other variables are changing. you are adding/losing stationary mass w/ mods, you are increasing/decreasing rotational mass w/ mods, etc. these are the basic causes of loss. in short, it's not scientific to establish a single number, as you do not have an expirimental control. (not apples to apples) it is not a linear or curved relationship.
as to the comments on shiv and vishnu tuning, knock him all you like, he's easily in the top 5 import tuning minds in the industry. he may not have referenced engineering and math in that particular link, but i assure you he will talk your head into a spin with experience and knowledge. he's the cream of the crop, and is only currently challenged by TxS for production of safe power.
why compare the EVO to the WRX? the STI is a much better comparison point, don't you agree? either way, the STI and EVO will finally be here, and IMO, kings of the import class for at least the next few years. (until infinity decides to bring us the GTR of course) 
personally, i think both cars will be severly lacking on the interior. but the STI will be pushing more power off the boat. unfortunately, that extra hp, tranny, and differential will cost about 3-4K more MSRP.
dR
from the typical AWD platform, expect to lose about 20% in the drivetrain. this puts the WRX at around 182 or so, right b/w the two extremes as far as dyno readings. mitsu VR owners are subject to a bit more, due to the extraordinary weight and heavy componants like brakes etc. they do not represent a good sample for TYPICAL driveline loss in AWD.
driveline loss cannot be determined by a fixed hp loss, or even a fixed % (although the % is typically a better representation) b/c as you increase hp, many other variables are changing. you are adding/losing stationary mass w/ mods, you are increasing/decreasing rotational mass w/ mods, etc. these are the basic causes of loss. in short, it's not scientific to establish a single number, as you do not have an expirimental control. (not apples to apples) it is not a linear or curved relationship.
as to the comments on shiv and vishnu tuning, knock him all you like, he's easily in the top 5 import tuning minds in the industry. he may not have referenced engineering and math in that particular link, but i assure you he will talk your head into a spin with experience and knowledge. he's the cream of the crop, and is only currently challenged by TxS for production of safe power.
why compare the EVO to the WRX? the STI is a much better comparison point, don't you agree? either way, the STI and EVO will finally be here, and IMO, kings of the import class for at least the next few years. (until infinity decides to bring us the GTR of course)
personally, i think both cars will be severly lacking on the interior. but the STI will be pushing more power off the boat. unfortunately, that extra hp, tranny, and differential will cost about 3-4K more MSRP.
dR
Last edited by dark_rex; Jan 27, 2003 at 01:59 PM.
Jan 27, 2003, 01:56 PM
#113
Evolved Member
Originally posted by dark_rex
why compare the EVO to the WRX? the STI is a much better comparison point, don't you agree? either way, the STI and EVO will finally be here, and IMO, kings of the import class for at least the next few years. (until infinity decides to bring us the GTR of course)
why compare the EVO to the WRX? the STI is a much better comparison point, don't you agree? either way, the STI and EVO will finally be here, and IMO, kings of the import class for at least the next few years. (until infinity decides to bring us the GTR of course)
Fedja
Jan 27, 2003, 02:04 PM
#114
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Originally posted by MrAWD
Mainly because WRX is here and dyno-able, while STi is still a dream machine
Fedja
Mainly because WRX is here and dyno-able, while STi is still a dream machine
Fedja
MECHANICAL
300-horsepower @ 6,000 rpm, 300 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4,000 rpm
2.5-liter intercooled and turbocharged 4-cylinder boxer engine with Active Valve Control System (AVCS)
Full-time All-Wheel Drive (AWD) with Driver Controlled Center Differential (DCCD)
Mechanical limited-slip rear differential
Suretrac viscous limited slip front differential
4-wheel fully independent sport-tuned suspension with inverted struts
6-speed manual transmission with short-throw shifter
SAFETY
Subaru All-Wheel Driving System
Front seat side-impact air bags (SRS)*
Brembo braking system with 4-wheel disks
Super Sport Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) with Electronic Brake-force Distribution (EBD)
EXTERIOR
Front bumper corner spoilers, rear trunk spoiler, STi side ground effects
High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlights
17-inch BBS aluminum-alloy wheels with 225/45 R17 summer radials
INTERIOR
Leather-wrapped STi MOMO brand steering wheel
Performance design reclining front bucket seats with integrated head restraints.
the only dreaming going on is mine.
it's coming june of this year. the only Q mark is price. (reliable sources from SOA and SONE say ~32K) but i hear ya.
dR
Jan 27, 2003, 02:40 PM
#115
Evolved Member
Originally posted by dark_rex
the only dreaming going on is mine. it's coming june of this year. the only Q mark is price. (reliable sources from SOA and SONE say ~32K)
the only dreaming going on is mine.
it's coming june of this year. the only Q mark is price. (reliable sources from SOA and SONE say ~32K)
Fedja
Jan 27, 2003, 11:46 PM
#117
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Originally posted by Claudius
I cannot see how power to the wheels on one dyno would be different from power at the wheels on another without at least one of them reading incorrectly. And I cant see how that changes the math related to transmission loss.
I have witnessed a friend's STOCK Evo 6 GSR put out 215 bhp to the wheels and another friend's STOCK Evo 6 GSR put out 230 BHP to the wheels, on the same dyno, on the same day, at G Force Motorsport in Aylesbury in the UK in June last year.
I cannot see how power to the wheels on one dyno would be different from power at the wheels on another without at least one of them reading incorrectly. And I cant see how that changes the math related to transmission loss.
I have witnessed a friend's STOCK Evo 6 GSR put out 215 bhp to the wheels and another friend's STOCK Evo 6 GSR put out 230 BHP to the wheels, on the same dyno, on the same day, at G Force Motorsport in Aylesbury in the UK in June last year.
I have said it so many times. EVERY ENGINE IS DIFFERENT!!
Two motors could have the exact same modifications as the other, but have completely different horsepower curves and max peaks.
My car dynoed for 16 more peak horsepower in Los Angeles than it did in Las Vegas at the same boost level. Altitude and temperature can drastically affect the curve.
If the test is done on the same dyno with two cars with the same modifications, there can still be differences. An example of this comes to mind when dealing with the 2G turbo Eclipse motors. The screw on the bottom of the MAS that adjusts the airflow reading is screwed in a different height in every vehicle. This means that a modification will affect each and every 2G different ways because of the airflow meter.
EVERY MOTOR IS DIFFERENT! Tune your vehicle to its own settings, not to the other guys.
Jeff
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