question on jetcoating the manif.
Mar 16, 2005, 09:47 AM
#16
You want proof:
The expression for gas pressure developed from kinetic theory relates pressure and volume to the average molecular kinetic energy. Comparison with the ideal gas law leads to an expression for temperature sometimes referred to as the kinetic temperature.
This leads to the expression
The more familiar form expresses the average molecular kinetic energy:
It is important to note that the average kinetic energy used here is limited to the translational kinetic energy of the molecules. That is, they are treated as point masses and no account is made of internal degrees of freedom such as molecular rotation and vibration. This distinction becomes quite important when you deal with subjects like the specific heats of gases. When you try to assess specific heat, you must account for all the energy possessed by the molecules, and the temperature as ordinarily measured does not account for molecular rotation and vibration. The kinetic temperature is the variable needed for subjects like heat transfer, because it is the translational kinetic energy which leads to energy transfer from a hot area (larger kinetic temperature, higher molecular speeds) to a cold area (lower molecular speeds) in direct collisional transfer.
The expression for gas pressure developed from kinetic theory relates pressure and volume to the average molecular kinetic energy. Comparison with the ideal gas law leads to an expression for temperature sometimes referred to as the kinetic temperature.
This leads to the expression
The more familiar form expresses the average molecular kinetic energy:
It is important to note that the average kinetic energy used here is limited to the translational kinetic energy of the molecules. That is, they are treated as point masses and no account is made of internal degrees of freedom such as molecular rotation and vibration. This distinction becomes quite important when you deal with subjects like the specific heats of gases. When you try to assess specific heat, you must account for all the energy possessed by the molecules, and the temperature as ordinarily measured does not account for molecular rotation and vibration. The kinetic temperature is the variable needed for subjects like heat transfer, because it is the translational kinetic energy which leads to energy transfer from a hot area (larger kinetic temperature, higher molecular speeds) to a cold area (lower molecular speeds) in direct collisional transfer.
Last edited by EVOla_VIRUS; Mar 16, 2005 at 09:49 AM.
Mar 16, 2005, 10:23 AM
#19
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Honki24, just spend the hundred bucks or whatever, get it done and then you won't ever have to worry about the manifold rusting ever again. There, a hundred bucks for rust proofing. There's an answer for ya!
Mar 16, 2005, 10:43 AM
#21
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This guy just needs to make up his dam mind. Doit or not do it, how much power will it make, why should I do it, it will hurt the turbo, it won't hurt the turbo? WAH WAH WAH
Why don't we all go to McDonalds and orders some french cries to go along with his burger
Why don't we all go to McDonalds and orders some french cries to go along with his burger
Last edited by scott88vr6; Mar 16, 2005 at 10:47 AM.
Mar 16, 2005, 10:47 AM
#22
Hey Ted...he questions heat vs energy...gas law states that. Help answer his question about coating...he thinks the heat will crack our stock manifold.
BTW...this is a stupid thread; next thing you know he is going to ask us how to do his GF/wife....then im gonna have to post another equation
BTW...this is a stupid thread; next thing you know he is going to ask us how to do his GF/wife....then im gonna have to post another equation
Mar 16, 2005, 12:00 PM
#23
Originally Posted by EVOla_VIRUS
Hey Ted...he questions heat vs energy...gas law states that. Help answer his question about coating...he thinks the heat will crack our stock manifold.
BTW...this is a stupid thread; next thing you know he is going to ask us how to do his GF/wife....then im gonna have to post another equation
Mar 16, 2005, 09:48 PM
#24
Yeah I should tell you to chill but it is funny.
How can anyone complain? At Buschur's price on these pieces you are getting a port clean up and a coating for 200 bones. Ever get anything coated before? It ain't cheap!
Oh and I don't believe in them, oh wait what is this in my living room.
How can anyone complain? At Buschur's price on these pieces you are getting a port clean up and a coating for 200 bones. Ever get anything coated before? It ain't cheap!
Oh and I don't believe in them, oh wait what is this in my living room.
Mar 17, 2005, 06:11 AM
#25
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holy cow are you guys all fast and furious fan? heat = power? wow i was cracking up. first of all, heat does not drive the turbos, its waste gas. second, hot gases DO flow faster; aka "pushing" the heat down the pipe as the pros call it. so how does this help you say?
first, because heat is pushed away from the manifold, manifold itself radiates less heat and less engine bay temp = cooler intake temp. drag racers will ceramic coat not just the manifold, but the turbos as well. second, "pushing" the heat down the pipe means hotter gas at faster rate, which means turbine spools alil sooner. So don’t bother dynoing, as you wont see a significant gain ....dyno’s don’t measure responsiveness so there you go... as factual and nonfast and furious as u can get it lol
first, because heat is pushed away from the manifold, manifold itself radiates less heat and less engine bay temp = cooler intake temp. drag racers will ceramic coat not just the manifold, but the turbos as well. second, "pushing" the heat down the pipe means hotter gas at faster rate, which means turbine spools alil sooner. So don’t bother dynoing, as you wont see a significant gain ....dyno’s don’t measure responsiveness so there you go... as factual and nonfast and furious as u can get it lol
Last edited by mifesto; Mar 17, 2005 at 06:49 AM.
Mar 17, 2005, 06:12 AM
#26
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oh and by the way, i am getting my exhaust manifold ceramic coated but not because it promises big gaines or huge efficiency. i'm getting it because i enjoy improving my car even if small.
Mar 17, 2005, 07:01 AM
#27
^ first off you came out like an fool...dont take offense...take some engineering classes. Turbo efficiency and what you would call "spool" is affected by heat. Heat does equal energy thus can affect power.
BTW...youve got like 1900 posts and youre still an evolved member?? im sorry to hear that
BTW...youve got like 1900 posts and youre still an evolved member?? im sorry to hear that
Last edited by EVOla_VIRUS; Mar 17, 2005 at 07:32 AM.
Mar 17, 2005, 07:08 AM
#28
Originally Posted by timzcat
Yeah I should tell you to chill but it is funny.
How can anyone complain? At Buschur's price on these pieces you are getting a port clean up and a coating for 200 bones. Ever get anything coated before? It ain't cheap!
Oh and I don't believe in them, oh wait what is this in my living room.
How can anyone complain? At Buschur's price on these pieces you are getting a port clean up and a coating for 200 bones. Ever get anything coated before? It ain't cheap!
Oh and I don't believe in them, oh wait what is this in my living room.
Mar 17, 2005, 07:27 AM
#29
Originally Posted by mifesto
holy cow are you guys all fast and furious fan? heat = power? wow i was cracking up. first of all, heat does not drive the turbos, its waste gas. second, hot gases DO flow faster; aka "pushing" the heat down the pipe as the pros call it. so how does this help you say?
first, because heat is pushed away from the manifold, manifold itself radiates less heat and less engine bay temp = cooler intake temp. drag racers will ceramic coat not just the manifold, but the turbos as well. second, "pushing" the heat down the pipe means hotter gas at faster rate, which means turbine spools alil sooner. So don’t bother dynoing, as you wont see a significant gain ....dyno’s don’t measure responsiveness so there you go... as factual and nonfast and furious as u can get it lol
first, because heat is pushed away from the manifold, manifold itself radiates less heat and less engine bay temp = cooler intake temp. drag racers will ceramic coat not just the manifold, but the turbos as well. second, "pushing" the heat down the pipe means hotter gas at faster rate, which means turbine spools alil sooner. So don’t bother dynoing, as you wont see a significant gain ....dyno’s don’t measure responsiveness so there you go... as factual and nonfast and furious as u can get it lol
amongst all the stupidity going on here, thanks for contributing something helpful. That is what I am asking about, however yea you could observe responsiveness a little on the dyno sheet b/c the curve should come up sooner w/ a sooner spool. I am just curious if anyone has ever really found this coating to (aside from theory) make any real difference.btw:thanks for all the sarcasm everyone, but it is a serious question and if you dont "like" my question then stop responding idiots! For those of you contributing to/ understanding my inquiry thank you for your input. ...I really hate when people who dont know try to solve the problem by saying, "just go spend the money and do it" like they are some genius with an original answer.
...and I can't complain about buschur's prices at all, they are very good, however during the summers, I am a paint contractor, so I have access to paints that will hold up to manifold temps and make it look "pretty". So you see, I am questioning the validity of the jet/ceramic coating over just a simple sand and spray that will last just as long... I mean a waste of money is a waste of money, be it 1000 dollars or 125 for a jetcoat.
Last edited by honki24; Mar 17, 2005 at 07:31 AM.
Mar 17, 2005, 09:00 AM
#30
I hope you mean sandblast and not sandpaper. It has to be clean in order to coat or paint it or it will not stick in the long run.
So you started a topic about coatings and never intended to actually do it? All of your questions about performance increase a basically moot because you plan on painting it and not coating it? How do you propose to paint the inside of the runners which is just as important as the outside? Don't you get the point about the Buschur manifold being ported and coated. The port match and clean up is making a difference on top of the coating. Why not save the time an aggrivation to sand and paint your manifold and just spend the 200 for the Buschur one if stopping the rust on the outside is your only interest. At least get as much gain as you can for your hard work. Taking the turbo assembly off via jack is not exactly easy with that damn undertray and all so you are going to spend your time to remove it, sand and paint it, and then reinstall just to look better cosmetically?
btw.. It is against the rules to insult other members, such as calling them idiots.
So you started a topic about coatings and never intended to actually do it? All of your questions about performance increase a basically moot because you plan on painting it and not coating it? How do you propose to paint the inside of the runners which is just as important as the outside? Don't you get the point about the Buschur manifold being ported and coated. The port match and clean up is making a difference on top of the coating. Why not save the time an aggrivation to sand and paint your manifold and just spend the 200 for the Buschur one if stopping the rust on the outside is your only interest. At least get as much gain as you can for your hard work. Taking the turbo assembly off via jack is not exactly easy with that damn undertray and all so you are going to spend your time to remove it, sand and paint it, and then reinstall just to look better cosmetically?
btw.. It is against the rules to insult other members, such as calling them idiots.