"solved my gravel in the clutch sound!"
Mar 31, 2005, 03:23 PM
#1
"solved my gravel in the clutch sound!"
I have the EXEDY triple carbon clutch, new transfer-case with forged gears, and rebuilt trans. I was having some noise (like rocks thrown in the clutch) at 3K-4K rpm, and was sure the sound was from a bad throw-out bearing or something else. At the same time i put all those parts in, I ALSO put in a Weapon-R engine dampner.
It turns out the noise is the engine vibrations being transmitted into the body of the car, it has to be at certain ossilations to shake the body of the vehicle. and it sounds/feels like its comming from an important part ie:T.C./clutch/trans. I guess this problem can also be from poly. bushings? Dont worry, your stuff is not falling apart if you have the engine dampner on. I took it off and the sound went away! of course I have it back on now, will deal with the noise for now.
It turns out the noise is the engine vibrations being transmitted into the body of the car, it has to be at certain ossilations to shake the body of the vehicle. and it sounds/feels like its comming from an important part ie:T.C./clutch/trans. I guess this problem can also be from poly. bushings? Dont worry, your stuff is not falling apart if you have the engine dampner on. I took it off and the sound went away! of course I have it back on now, will deal with the noise for now.
Mar 31, 2005, 03:38 PM
#4
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all those harmonics are going to play hell with bearings.. and i have seen alot of people say that the vibs increased overwhelmingly when going with these big clutches.. oh well you want to play you got to pay..
Mar 31, 2005, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dafarmer69
all those harmonics are going to play hell with bearings.. and i have seen alot of people say that the vibs increased overwhelmingly when going with these big clutches.. oh well you want to play you got to pay..
What is going on here is that the dampener isn't doing it's job at the front of the engine to dampen out some of the vibrations and so more of them get through to the back of the engine. These vibrations can tear up clutch centers and make flywheels come off, but more noticably cause more noise.
Case in point is Brent Rau's 7 sec. drag car: He ran all season running the stock front damper without a problem with the flywheel. He changed the front damper (that's all he changed) to an SFI approved design and all of a sudden he couldn't keep a flywheel on the back of the crank no matter what he did. It would just spin them right off. We doweled the flywheel and crank, and then he couldn't keep the damper hub on the front of the crank, no matter what. He went back to the stock damper, and... it's cured.
Mar 31, 2005, 04:53 PM
#6
Originally Posted by ACTman
ACTually the harmonics don't pose any problems to bearings at all. The vibrations don't increase with "big" clutches either. The noise increases with the twin and triple discs, but not vibrations.
What is going on here is that the dampener isn't doing it's job at the front of the engine to dampen out some of the vibrations and so more of them get through to the back of the engine. These vibrations can tear up clutch centers and make flywheels come off, but more noticably cause more noise.
Case in point is Brent Rau's 7 sec. drag car: He ran all season running the stock front damper without a problem with the flywheel. He changed the front damper (that's all he changed) to an SFI approved design and all of a sudden he couldn't keep a flywheel on the back of the crank no matter what he did. It would just spin them right off. We doweled the flywheel and crank, and then he couldn't keep the damper hub on the front of the crank, no matter what. He went back to the stock damper, and... it's cured.
What is going on here is that the dampener isn't doing it's job at the front of the engine to dampen out some of the vibrations and so more of them get through to the back of the engine. These vibrations can tear up clutch centers and make flywheels come off, but more noticably cause more noise.
Case in point is Brent Rau's 7 sec. drag car: He ran all season running the stock front damper without a problem with the flywheel. He changed the front damper (that's all he changed) to an SFI approved design and all of a sudden he couldn't keep a flywheel on the back of the crank no matter what he did. It would just spin them right off. We doweled the flywheel and crank, and then he couldn't keep the damper hub on the front of the crank, no matter what. He went back to the stock damper, and... it's cured.
Mar 31, 2005, 04:55 PM
#7
Originally Posted by dafarmer69
all those harmonics are going to play hell with bearings.. and i have seen alot of people say that the vibs increased overwhelmingly when going with these big clutches.. oh well you want to play you got to pay..
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:21 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by smokedmustang
Excellent advise. do YOU recommend ditching the dampner?
There are no free rides. Like the noise thing for instance: If you don't mind the noise, so what? Let it be noisy and use the aftermarket one. It won't damage the engine or transmission. Now if you had an expensive dogbox transmission, it's another story altogether since the gears are softer and tougher. They don't tend to break, but they do tend to wear more easily. In that case you have to be careful how much torsional vibration gets transmitted to the gearbox. On the other hand, if you want to get 100K out of the clutch, reconsider the aftermarket pulley in favor of the stock dampner.
But for either street or race, you have to look at the whole system (powertrain, drivetrain, etc) and what you expect to achieve and what you are willing to compromise on. You can only imagine that by using what you think is the best of everything that the parts should hold up better, but in fact the wrong combination of "the best of everything" can really do some damage and cost some coin.
The real problem is getting accurate information. My big beef (now I am standing on a soapbox) is that companies (not picking on any one in particular) spend so much time selling you on a product and not enough time educating you about a product. Most will tell you all the benefits, but they don't tell you the tradoffs. It makes it really difficult to make a good decision (off soapbox now).
Mar 31, 2005, 06:14 PM
#9
Thank-you Dirk for all the information, we need more people like you on this site, well educated and willing to pull-out and stand on your soapbox and give very valuable advice. awesome!
Originally Posted by ACTman
Personally, since I like to save the clutch disc center, I would use the stock one on the street. For racing it depends I guess.
There are no free rides. Like the noise thing for instance: If you don't mind the noise, so what? Let it be noisy and use the aftermarket one. It won't damage the engine or transmission. Now if you had an expensive dogbox transmission, it's another story altogether since the gears are softer and tougher. They don't tend to break, but they do tend to wear more easily. In that case you have to be careful how much torsional vibration gets transmitted to the gearbox. On the other hand, if you want to get 100K out of the clutch, reconsider the aftermarket pulley in favor of the stock dampner.
But for either street or race, you have to look at the whole system (powertrain, drivetrain, etc) and what you expect to achieve and what you are willing to compromise on. You can only imagine that by using what you think is the best of everything that the parts should hold up better, but in fact the wrong combination of "the best of everything" can really do some damage and cost some coin.
The real problem is getting accurate information. My big beef (now I am standing on a soapbox) is that companies (not picking on any one in particular) spend so much time selling you on a product and not enough time educating you about a product. Most will tell you all the benefits, but they don't tell you the tradoffs. It makes it really difficult to make a good decision (off soapbox now).
There are no free rides. Like the noise thing for instance: If you don't mind the noise, so what? Let it be noisy and use the aftermarket one. It won't damage the engine or transmission. Now if you had an expensive dogbox transmission, it's another story altogether since the gears are softer and tougher. They don't tend to break, but they do tend to wear more easily. In that case you have to be careful how much torsional vibration gets transmitted to the gearbox. On the other hand, if you want to get 100K out of the clutch, reconsider the aftermarket pulley in favor of the stock dampner.
But for either street or race, you have to look at the whole system (powertrain, drivetrain, etc) and what you expect to achieve and what you are willing to compromise on. You can only imagine that by using what you think is the best of everything that the parts should hold up better, but in fact the wrong combination of "the best of everything" can really do some damage and cost some coin.
The real problem is getting accurate information. My big beef (now I am standing on a soapbox) is that companies (not picking on any one in particular) spend so much time selling you on a product and not enough time educating you about a product. Most will tell you all the benefits, but they don't tell you the tradoffs. It makes it really difficult to make a good decision (off soapbox now).
Mar 31, 2005, 06:37 PM
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You guys do realize you're talking about 2 TOTALLY different things, right?
Smokedmustang, you're talking about the Weapon R Engine Torque Dampner, the thing that acts as an extra engine mount to limit engine movement.
ACTman, you're talking about a engine vibration dampner typically found in the stock crank pulley and that is removed with aftermarket pulleys.
I found total humor in this thread, since one guy is going to remove his engine torque dampner because someone was giving advice about a crank pulley.
Anyway, I don't mean to sound like a d1ck, but it was funny, you gotta admit....
- Steve
Smokedmustang, you're talking about the Weapon R Engine Torque Dampner, the thing that acts as an extra engine mount to limit engine movement.
ACTman, you're talking about a engine vibration dampner typically found in the stock crank pulley and that is removed with aftermarket pulleys.
I found total humor in this thread, since one guy is going to remove his engine torque dampner because someone was giving advice about a crank pulley.
Anyway, I don't mean to sound like a d1ck, but it was funny, you gotta admit....
- Steve
Mar 31, 2005, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperHatch
You guys do realize you're talking about 2 TOTALLY different things, right?
Smokedmustang, you're talking about the Weapon R Engine Torque Dampner, the thing that acts as an extra engine mount to limit engine movement.
ACTman, you're talking about a engine vibration dampner typically found in the stock crank pulley and that is removed with aftermarket pulleys.
I found total humor in this thread, since one guy is going to remove his engine torque dampner because someone was giving advice about a crank pulley.
Anyway, I don't mean to sound like a d1ck, but it was funny, you gotta admit....
- Steve
Smokedmustang, you're talking about the Weapon R Engine Torque Dampner, the thing that acts as an extra engine mount to limit engine movement.
ACTman, you're talking about a engine vibration dampner typically found in the stock crank pulley and that is removed with aftermarket pulleys.
I found total humor in this thread, since one guy is going to remove his engine torque dampner because someone was giving advice about a crank pulley.
Anyway, I don't mean to sound like a d1ck, but it was funny, you gotta admit....
- Steve
Apr 1, 2005, 02:54 AM
#13
Originally Posted by SuperHatch
You guys do realize you're talking about 2 TOTALLY different things, right?
Smokedmustang, you're talking about the Weapon R Engine Torque Dampner, the thing that acts as an extra engine mount to limit engine movement.
ACTman, you're talking about a engine vibration dampner typically found in the stock crank pulley and that is removed with aftermarket pulleys.
I found total humor in this thread, since one guy is going to remove his engine torque dampner because someone was giving advice about a crank pulley.
Anyway, I don't mean to sound like a d1ck, but it was funny, you gotta admit....
- Steve
Smokedmustang, you're talking about the Weapon R Engine Torque Dampner, the thing that acts as an extra engine mount to limit engine movement.
ACTman, you're talking about a engine vibration dampner typically found in the stock crank pulley and that is removed with aftermarket pulleys.
I found total humor in this thread, since one guy is going to remove his engine torque dampner because someone was giving advice about a crank pulley.
Anyway, I don't mean to sound like a d1ck, but it was funny, you gotta admit....
- Steve
Apr 1, 2005, 12:36 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by smokedmustang
Ok, I want to laugh too!!!!!!!!! What did I miss? what causes the center of the clutch disk to have issues? the engine dampner I have? I was under the assumption the Xtra noise I hear trandlated to unwanted problems somewhere in the driveline? and yes I was talking about the weapon R. And I understand what Actman was talking about the pulley! help me out while I loosen my helmet and change my chin-sponge!!!!!!!!!!
Apr 1, 2005, 05:14 PM
#15
Originally Posted by ACTman
The clutch disc has issues when you change the front pulley, not when you change the engine mounting. The extra vibration you feel and hear from the dampner mount will not hurt anything in the driveline that I can think of. It may rattle some other parts though. It may actually help the driveline a bit since the engine is not allowed to hammer back and forth so much, but I am no expert on engine mounting.
