ATP Turbo Upgrade
Apr 11, 2005, 01:33 AM
#48
Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
Well... I did not actually see the dyno of the 362whp pump gas ATP kit. I do know that just going by peak numbers is quite inconclusive and does not tell the whole story. I can back up my statement somewhat however.. here is my dyno. My peak power is set across from 5600 to redline, give or take 5whp... soooo what peak and fall off are you referring to? We were referring to horsepower not torque. The torque does indeed fall off on the top end with the stock turbo but even you said in a later post that you were unhappy with the torque on the 3071R.
I dont mean to flame - Im just going by what I view. My point was that even though the turbo kit is indeed cheap, Im making similar numbers with less mods MINUS the turbo upgrade kit! Even if the kit made those numbers without standalone and an upgraded FMIC, its still incredibly unimpressive.
Overall, 421whp is disappointing for an upgraded turbo with standalone on race gas. Those arent BAD numbers its just that the stock turbo can and has done it.
RNR sells a 50trim kit for around $2200 that puts down 420awhp on PUMP GAS for around the same price as the ATP kit!
Just to reiterate, Im not an RNR salesman, I dont know ANY of their products... its just that I like to see hard numbers, track and dyno before I shell out that hard earned cash. Are we suppose to "ohh and ahhh" the ATP kit for making power the stock turbo can make? Personally, I think not.
I dont mean to flame - Im just going by what I view. My point was that even though the turbo kit is indeed cheap, Im making similar numbers with less mods MINUS the turbo upgrade kit! Even if the kit made those numbers without standalone and an upgraded FMIC, its still incredibly unimpressive.
Overall, 421whp is disappointing for an upgraded turbo with standalone on race gas. Those arent BAD numbers its just that the stock turbo can and has done it.
RNR sells a 50trim kit for around $2200 that puts down 420awhp on PUMP GAS for around the same price as the ATP kit!
Just to reiterate, Im not an RNR salesman, I dont know ANY of their products... its just that I like to see hard numbers, track and dyno before I shell out that hard earned cash. Are we suppose to "ohh and ahhh" the ATP kit for making power the stock turbo can make? Personally, I think not.
wait why condone the rnr 50 trim? have you seen hard numbers from them?
Originally Posted by Derek888
BTW is that dyno graph from a ATP kit? Why does the power drop so much at higher rpm's?
you get most of what you can outta the stocker (out of its efficiency) in one big spike hwere the turbo can squeeze all it can for a few hundred rpms and then it falls off rapidly to waht it REALly is... and that's running out of breathe. like i said before... sometimes spool can't be sacraficed and when you need the spool better than stock and the power curve better than stock... the only discussion is 3071... not even modified stock 10.5 etc. stock compressor just can't flow, if there's a 20g then we're in business... but ther is none as of yet.
Last edited by trinydex; Apr 11, 2005 at 01:38 AM.
Apr 11, 2005, 06:53 AM
#49
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Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
Well... I did not actually see the dyno of the 362whp pump gas ATP kit. I do know that just going by peak numbers is quite inconclusive and does not tell the whole story. I can back up my statement somewhat however.. here is my dyno. My peak power is set across from 5600 to redline, give or take 5whp... soooo what peak and fall off are you referring to? We were referring to horsepower not torque. The torque does indeed fall off on the top end with the stock turbo but even you said in a later post that you were unhappy with the torque on the 3071R.
I dont mean to flame - Im just going by what I view. My point was that even though the turbo kit is indeed cheap, Im making similar numbers with less mods MINUS the turbo upgrade kit! Even if the kit made those numbers without standalone and an upgraded FMIC, its still incredibly unimpressive.
Overall, 421whp is disappointing for an upgraded turbo with standalone on race gas. Those arent BAD numbers its just that the stock turbo can and has done it.
I dont mean to flame - Im just going by what I view. My point was that even though the turbo kit is indeed cheap, Im making similar numbers with less mods MINUS the turbo upgrade kit! Even if the kit made those numbers without standalone and an upgraded FMIC, its still incredibly unimpressive.
Overall, 421whp is disappointing for an upgraded turbo with standalone on race gas. Those arent BAD numbers its just that the stock turbo can and has done it.
We aren't talking about the RnR 50 trim kit either. If you want to compare that turbo to an ATP kit you will need to compare it to the 3076 to be fair.
Apr 11, 2005, 07:17 AM
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Here are 2 dyno's to compare. Race gas to race gas and both at 26psi i think. In the first graph only look at the red line becasue the blue line is a much larger turbo than we are talking about. Now this is one of the best stock turbo setups to hold power but it fall to 370ish at 7500rpm.
If the second graph was pulled to 7500 it would have fallen of as well but there is a much larger difference in the power levels. after 5000-5200rpm the the upgraded turbo car would be raping the stock turbo car givin equal drivers.
If the second graph was pulled to 7500 it would have fallen of as well but there is a much larger difference in the power levels. after 5000-5200rpm the the upgraded turbo car would be raping the stock turbo car givin equal drivers.
Apr 11, 2005, 08:50 AM
#51
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Originally Posted by Evol_VIII
You just shot yourself in the foot by posting your dyno. The problem is your dyno ends at 6800rpm and not 7500-7800rpm. That is where the difference will go from 15whp to 50whp which will make a big deal in a race. The peak and fall off people have been pointing out is more about the 400whp stock turbo setups. None of those cars can hold there power all the way to 7500 like the upgraded turbo will.
We aren't talking about the RnR 50 trim kit either. If you want to compare that turbo to an ATP kit you will need to compare it to the 3076 to be fair.
We aren't talking about the RnR 50 trim kit either. If you want to compare that turbo to an ATP kit you will need to compare it to the 3076 to be fair.
F the dyno - how bout track times? Ive yet to see ONE track time. Stock turbo has gone 11.2@123, also another 11.5@122 and 6 other 11 second timeslips all in the 117-120mph range. Pump gas runs around 115 are seen too. This is proven. Dont give me **** about power falling off. The track times speak for themselves. To shut me up, just give me some times from the ATP kit. Ill be glad to see them, ****, Ill buy the kit!
I know we werent talking about the RNR 50 trim kit, I was just pointing out that a guy on here, his name was DECEIT or soemthing like it, had the basic 50 trim kit and put down 419AWHP on pump gas. Yes the 50 trim is proven to make big numbers on pump has because its efficient, thats why I used it as an example. Its used heavily in the DSM world because of its great potential on pump gas.
Everyone whose talking about my dyno vs the ATP... so far its been oh well if you revved out the ATP would make so much m ore power... I just dont see it. Its all heresay.
I have not seen one dyno of an ATP kit on pump gas make impressive power on an AWD dyno. If anyone has a 3071R and wants to race me in NJ, be my guest. IM NOT SAYING THE STOCK TURBO IS JUST AS GOOD AS THE 3071R. I obiously know it WILL MAKE MORE POWER UP TOP, it wont drop as much as the stock turbo. But we're talking about a $2200+ upgrade to get a little more power at 7400rpm?? Comeon
All I want is some hard numbers - and maybe some track times? of the 3071R. This was my first choice of turbos but the more I looked at it, the harder it was to find some numbers on it at all. Ive decided for now to keep the stock turbo and just wait for some sort of stock turbo upgrade. Everyone should just calm down - I didnt post my dyno to show how good it is, just a point that would you really spend $2200 on a turbo upgrade, $2000 on standalone and $1000 on an upgraded FMIC to make a slight increase in power. Also, I wont just buy a turbo off dyno charts, I want some track results.
Tom
Apr 11, 2005, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Evol_VIII
Here are 2 dyno's to compare. Race gas to race gas and both at 26psi i think. In the first graph only look at the red line becasue the blue line is a much larger turbo than we are talking about. Now this is one of the best stock turbo setups to hold power but it fall to 370ish at 7500rpm.
If the second graph was pulled to 7500 it would have fallen of as well but there is a much larger difference in the power levels. after 5000-5200rpm the the upgraded turbo car would be raping the stock turbo car givin equal drivers.
If the second graph was pulled to 7500 it would have fallen of as well but there is a much larger difference in the power levels. after 5000-5200rpm the the upgraded turbo car would be raping the stock turbo car givin equal drivers.
I was under the impression a good amount of guys on evom have the ATP 3071R. If so, where are their dynos? Their track results? Im good on hearing "its a great upgrade". Lets see it!!!!!!!!
Apr 11, 2005, 08:58 AM
#53
Originally Posted by sgplancer
Matt, did you finally get yours dyno'd?
When I was stock I put down around 190HP/200TQ...
With ATP 3071R I put down 302HP/241TQ @ 19-20 psi on 93... I was having boost controller issues, so I couldn't raise the boost.
I also have installed HKS 264/272, Injen FMIC/Piping/Intake, XEDE, Injectors, and Fuel Pump.
Before the turbo upgrade with all the supporting mods I was pushing 286HP/286TQ @ 24-25psi on 110.
I am happy with the results considering the circumstances and trust with another 3-4lbs of boost I will make 330HP/260TQ...
Apr 11, 2005, 09:01 AM
#54
I will try and make it to the track soon... I leave for California this Wednesday, so it might not be for some time.
Either way, I'll keep you posted.
FYI - When I was making 286HP/286TQ I ran 12.2@110 and I trust this new setup (even at 19-20psi) will crack 11's.
Either way, I'll keep you posted.
FYI - When I was making 286HP/286TQ I ran 12.2@110 and I trust this new setup (even at 19-20psi) will crack 11's.
Apr 11, 2005, 10:30 AM
#55
Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
F the dyno - how bout track times? Ive yet to see ONE track time. Stock turbo has gone 11.2@123, also another 11.5@122 and 6 other 11 second timeslips all in the 117-120mph range. Pump gas runs around 115 are seen too. This is proven. Dont give me **** about power falling off. The track times speak for themselves. To shut me up, just give me some times from the ATP kit. Ill be glad to see them, ****, Ill buy the kit!
Tom
Tom
On Woodward Ave I run into a modified 2003 Cobra from a stop - "sweet" - off the launch I am gone, we take it well into 4th gear and I am ahead the entire time... however towards the top of 4th he starts passing. Now granted we were going over 110MPH - which is dumb - he did start passing after what a 1/4 mile would be. On the express way Im sure he would have romped me...
Point is, our cars are geared and perform at 1/4 miles levels IMHO... however real life goes further than just a 1/4 mile, and at times from a roll.
It's at these moments the stock turbo really sucks (no pun intended) which is why I choose to upgrade to a larger turbo. It will make more power where the car needs it, and still spool up quick.
Apr 11, 2005, 10:35 AM
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Yes check out my post im selling the GT35/40R i made 512whp on the stock block only have injectors and exhaust with 272's. The kit im selling is New with a new center housing, new compressor and new exhaust housing all satin coated. Letting it go for $1600 for everything you woul get from ATP plus more.
Chris
Chris
Apr 11, 2005, 11:38 AM
#57
and you get 1000rpms of lag on top of the atp kit too! what a dEAL!
seriously... soon2bevo... it's 2200+ for an upgrade (not from atp) for the turbo that SHOULD have come on the car. that's all i'm sayin' (and i say that's all I'M sayin' because everyone else might be getting the turbo for a different reason, maybe to pull lots of power outta it ??? iunno...)
all i know is that when it comes time... i will be getting this... why? because this is a rally car... it works best when other cars are dangerously close to killing their driver. i know this car isn't gonna dominate lemans or daytona prepped m3s gt3s and n/a competition m3s and vipers and vettes (although some people do aspire to romp on these monsters), this car will beat most other cars in the canyons or in the short tracks, for this reason... boost response is of the utmost importance.
seriously... soon2bevo... it's 2200+ for an upgrade (not from atp) for the turbo that SHOULD have come on the car. that's all i'm sayin' (and i say that's all I'M sayin' because everyone else might be getting the turbo for a different reason, maybe to pull lots of power outta it ??? iunno...)
all i know is that when it comes time... i will be getting this... why? because this is a rally car... it works best when other cars are dangerously close to killing their driver. i know this car isn't gonna dominate lemans or daytona prepped m3s gt3s and n/a competition m3s and vipers and vettes (although some people do aspire to romp on these monsters), this car will beat most other cars in the canyons or in the short tracks, for this reason... boost response is of the utmost importance.
Last edited by trinydex; Apr 11, 2005 at 11:43 AM.
Apr 11, 2005, 01:05 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by MattGold
Track times are good and all, but for example... at times I am a maniac on the streets. . .
Point is, our cars are geared and perform at 1/4 miles levels IMHO... however real life goes further than just a 1/4 mile, and at times from a roll.
It's at these moments the stock turbo really sucks (no pun intended) which is why I choose to upgrade to a larger turbo. It will make more power where the car needs it, and still spool up quick.
Point is, our cars are geared and perform at 1/4 miles levels IMHO... however real life goes further than just a 1/4 mile, and at times from a roll.
It's at these moments the stock turbo really sucks (no pun intended) which is why I choose to upgrade to a larger turbo. It will make more power where the car needs it, and still spool up quick.
Again, Im not praising the stocker (although it is great), Im just saying that if Im gonna upgrade, Im gonna upgrade and get something like a GT30R that has serious top end with good spool (ball bearing one of course!). Its just my opinion.
Apr 11, 2005, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trinydex
and you get 1000rpms of lag on top of the atp kit too! what a dEAL!
seriously... soon2bevo... it's 2200+ for an upgrade (not from atp) for the turbo that SHOULD have come on the car. that's all i'm sayin' (and i say that's all I'M sayin' because everyone else might be getting the turbo for a different reason, maybe to pull lots of power outta it ??? iunno...)
all i know is that when it comes time... i will be getting this... why? because this is a rally car... it works best when other cars are dangerously close to killing their driver. i know this car isn't gonna dominate lemans or daytona prepped m3s gt3s and n/a competition m3s and vipers and vettes (although some people do aspire to romp on these monsters), this car will beat most other cars in the canyons or in the short tracks, for this reason... boost response is of the utmost importance.
seriously... soon2bevo... it's 2200+ for an upgrade (not from atp) for the turbo that SHOULD have come on the car. that's all i'm sayin' (and i say that's all I'M sayin' because everyone else might be getting the turbo for a different reason, maybe to pull lots of power outta it ??? iunno...)
all i know is that when it comes time... i will be getting this... why? because this is a rally car... it works best when other cars are dangerously close to killing their driver. i know this car isn't gonna dominate lemans or daytona prepped m3s gt3s and n/a competition m3s and vipers and vettes (although some people do aspire to romp on these monsters), this car will beat most other cars in the canyons or in the short tracks, for this reason... boost response is of the utmost importance.
Apr 11, 2005, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Soon2BEVO
I see what youre saying but Im going to have to disagree. I street race A LOT. I get races almost daily and 80% of them are from 3rd gear roll-ons. The other night I had the best race yet. 2004 Cobra with exhaust and pulley. 3rd gear roll on from around 55 all the way to 120+ it was a dead heat. I was in 5th gear pulling and we were still even, and thats with me going to 7300-7400 in 3rd and 4th. I did not see the stock turbo sucking at all. In fact, Im quite impressed with its performance. Believe me, Im definitely upgrading to a larger turbo but, the 3071R as of RIGHT NOW with the given information, just isnt doing it.
Again, Im not praising the stocker (although it is great), Im just saying that if Im gonna upgrade, Im gonna upgrade and get something like a GT30R that has serious top end with good spool (ball bearing one of course!). Its just my opinion.
Again, Im not praising the stocker (although it is great), Im just saying that if Im gonna upgrade, Im gonna upgrade and get something like a GT30R that has serious top end with good spool (ball bearing one of course!). Its just my opinion.