Do Intercooler Changing Give Some Extra Horsepower ?
Apr 22, 2005, 08:39 AM
#17
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yes.. i felt the same thing, as i have said before i noticed more performance out of the IC pipe then my turboback... the car is just way more responsive and boost hits much sooner and comes on harder.
Apr 22, 2005, 08:53 AM
#18
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umiami80...u only upgraded the lower i/c pipe and not the intercooler, correct? What kind of lower i/c piping are u using if u dont mind? I have the upgraded upper i/c im sure the lower would help..
Apr 22, 2005, 09:03 AM
#19
I upgraded the intercooler and lower IC piping together. The IC takes longer to charge, so it actually slowed the spool a couple hundred rpm. Moreover, you need to retune, because my A:F ratios leaned out almost a full point. In the end, I spool 200rpm later and made _no_ gains whatsoever. And I have a few mods: HKS cams, cam gears, exhaust, XEDE, tommi makinen turbo, SSautochrome manifold. Maybe on an aftermarket turbo, but nothing gained with the 16G in my case. YMMV.
Apr 22, 2005, 09:05 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by Ted B
The lower IC pipe makes a difference, although it isn't really a static difference. A dyno measures only what happens at a static throttle position. The lower IC improves transient response, and the difference is most noticeable as quicker transitions when you put your foot back into it after lifting off the throttle - which improves street feel.
As far as larger ICs with mildly modified appsm, it's been demonstrated here on several occasions that there is little to be gained with a larger IC with most stock turbo setups.
As far as larger ICs with mildly modified appsm, it's been demonstrated here on several occasions that there is little to be gained with a larger IC with most stock turbo setups.
Apr 22, 2005, 10:39 AM
#21
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I actually used a FULL IC piping kit, The Unorthodox racing unit which ALSO increases diameter from 2.0 to 2.5 for the most part. I also used T-Bolt clamps which you just set and forget. Anyway it is WELL documented that the Lower IC pipe gives you about 95% of the gains. The upper is nice to have but won’t give you any WHP but will probably aid in throttle response some.
IMHO get an AMS Lower IC pipe, replaces the ubber restrictive stock piece and will make a DEFENATE seat-of-the-pants feel
IMHO get an AMS Lower IC pipe, replaces the ubber restrictive stock piece and will make a DEFENATE seat-of-the-pants feel
Apr 26, 2005, 06:47 PM
#23
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Hi guys .. before you go around saying intercooler doesn't work .. stocker is good enough .. note .. what defines 'good enough' ??
FYI I did a TEMPERATURE test after the IC (stocker and new)
stock temp was in the region of 60+degrees C (ambient temp was 34degrees C)
aftermarket temp was in the region of 45+ to 50+degreesC (ambient temp 33degrees C)
temperature drop is one thing .. ever considered how much heat the stock core can conduct before it becomes hot ?? if you live in a hot locale (desert, equator, las vegas
etc) .. your stocker will get heatsoaked pretty fast..
Note also .. even aftermarket IC has variations in its ability to shed heat .. that could be why some pple insist no difference when changing to aftermarket IC core ..
It's not restrictive perse .. just that hardpipe resist expansion .. and expansion of the stock hose also causes the 'transient' response loss everyone feels.. also expansion causes some pressure drop in the intake system prior to the throttle body .. meaning just to get same boost your turbo works harder ..
The stock piping also has plenty of bends .. bends = bad for flow
FYI I did a TEMPERATURE test after the IC (stocker and new)
stock temp was in the region of 60+degrees C (ambient temp was 34degrees C)
aftermarket temp was in the region of 45+ to 50+degreesC (ambient temp 33degrees C)
temperature drop is one thing .. ever considered how much heat the stock core can conduct before it becomes hot ?? if you live in a hot locale (desert, equator, las vegas
etc) .. your stocker will get heatsoaked pretty fast..Note also .. even aftermarket IC has variations in its ability to shed heat .. that could be why some pple insist no difference when changing to aftermarket IC core ..
i think upper ic pipe has more rubber hose....
more rubber hose means more restrictive??? hard pipe is better right?
more rubber hose means more restrictive??? hard pipe is better right?
The stock piping also has plenty of bends .. bends = bad for flow
Apr 27, 2005, 02:13 AM
#24
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So who's got dyno numbers to back this up. Everyone claims 10awhp but no one has a dyno sheet to prove it. Can someone prove it so we all will go buy this lower intercooler pipping.
Apr 27, 2005, 02:19 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by umiami80
Anyway it is WELL documented that the Lower IC pipe gives you about 95% of the gains.
Apr 27, 2005, 08:02 AM
#26
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ASk many venders, Buschur for one. His FMIC kit somehow gives you the LARGEST power increase. It does this by INCLUDING a lower IC pipe. People replaceing upper pipes generally do not gain WHP, ESPECIALLY with teh stock turbo but with soild pipes and a T-Bolt clamp set you don't have to worry about boost leaks and blowing off you hoses like I did.
If you can, get the Entire kit as it is nice, but you will make 95% of the power with a simple Lower IC pipe.
If you can, get the Entire kit as it is nice, but you will make 95% of the power with a simple Lower IC pipe.
Apr 27, 2005, 11:17 AM
#27
Originally Posted by gunzo
Hi guys .. before you go around saying intercooler doesn't work .. stocker is good enough .. note .. what defines 'good enough' ??
FYI I did a TEMPERATURE test after the IC (stocker and new)
stock temp was in the region of 60+degrees C (ambient temp was 34degrees C)
aftermarket temp was in the region of 45+ to 50+degreesC (ambient temp 33degrees C)
temperature drop is one thing .. ever considered how much heat the stock core can conduct before it becomes hot ?? if you live in a hot locale (desert, equator, las vegas etc) .. your stocker will get heatsoaked pretty fast..
Note also .. even aftermarket IC has variations in its ability to shed heat .. that could be why some pple insist no difference when changing to aftermarket IC core ..
It's not restrictive perse .. just that hardpipe resist expansion .. and expansion of the stock hose also causes the 'transient' response loss everyone feels.. also expansion causes some pressure drop in the intake system prior to the throttle body .. meaning just to get same boost your turbo works harder ..
The stock piping also has plenty of bends .. bends = bad for flow
FYI I did a TEMPERATURE test after the IC (stocker and new)
stock temp was in the region of 60+degrees C (ambient temp was 34degrees C)
aftermarket temp was in the region of 45+ to 50+degreesC (ambient temp 33degrees C)
temperature drop is one thing .. ever considered how much heat the stock core can conduct before it becomes hot ?? if you live in a hot locale (desert, equator, las vegas
etc) .. your stocker will get heatsoaked pretty fast..Note also .. even aftermarket IC has variations in its ability to shed heat .. that could be why some pple insist no difference when changing to aftermarket IC core ..
It's not restrictive perse .. just that hardpipe resist expansion .. and expansion of the stock hose also causes the 'transient' response loss everyone feels.. also expansion causes some pressure drop in the intake system prior to the throttle body .. meaning just to get same boost your turbo works harder ..
The stock piping also has plenty of bends .. bends = bad for flow
Apr 27, 2005, 12:13 PM
#28
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From David Bushur's Dyno testing:
"Yet more testing that we did.
Last I left off at our Stage 2 kit. 320 hp and 329 ft lbs.
I wasn't in a hurry to do cams as when I get to that portion of our upgrades I want to test the 264/264, the 264/272, the 272/264, the 272/272 then some racing cams I have. So the cam testing is going to be pretty involved and take quite some time. I am going to do this testing with the EMS on the car and speed density so I can log and watch what is going on.
Anyway, not being in a hurry to do cams I figured I would throw our standard FMIC upgrade on the car to see what would happen. Now, it is cold as hell in Ohio right now and the gains from any intercooler upgrade I would think will be lower in this weather than on a hot summer day. As a matter of fact these dyno pulls were done with less than 15 minutes between any of them. Most were done with two back-to-back, then as quick as we could make a change and go again for atleast two again. So the car has been abused to say the least. Right now I am on the 209th dyno pull on my new RS. (poor car got the wrong owner!!)
The front end of my car is off as it makes it easier to swap FMIC's and get to the engine bay, the FMIC swap took all of 15 minutes (probably not that long) with the fascia off the car already. This kit uses the stock plumbing in and out or in our case uses our upper i/c pipe kit. The standard kit that we did this test with is exactly the same size and tank design as our deluxe kit, just doesn't use the shorter lower i/c pipe.
First pull I noticed the boost was a good 2 psi higher than before. I had to turn it down just a little. Power went up, 333.5 hp and 339.1 ft lbs. Really pleased with this, that is a 13 hp increase and 10 ft lbs."
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...t=buschur+dyno
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"That is correct fixem2. I don't want to advertise that the power gain between the two FMIC kits are different. They dyno showed a slight increase between the two and I just don't personally believe that the lower pipe is worth 6 whp."
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...t=buschur+dyno
"Yet more testing that we did.
Last I left off at our Stage 2 kit. 320 hp and 329 ft lbs.
I wasn't in a hurry to do cams as when I get to that portion of our upgrades I want to test the 264/264, the 264/272, the 272/264, the 272/272 then some racing cams I have. So the cam testing is going to be pretty involved and take quite some time. I am going to do this testing with the EMS on the car and speed density so I can log and watch what is going on.
Anyway, not being in a hurry to do cams I figured I would throw our standard FMIC upgrade on the car to see what would happen. Now, it is cold as hell in Ohio right now and the gains from any intercooler upgrade I would think will be lower in this weather than on a hot summer day. As a matter of fact these dyno pulls were done with less than 15 minutes between any of them. Most were done with two back-to-back, then as quick as we could make a change and go again for atleast two again. So the car has been abused to say the least. Right now I am on the 209th dyno pull on my new RS. (poor car got the wrong owner!!)
The front end of my car is off as it makes it easier to swap FMIC's and get to the engine bay, the FMIC swap took all of 15 minutes (probably not that long) with the fascia off the car already. This kit uses the stock plumbing in and out or in our case uses our upper i/c pipe kit. The standard kit that we did this test with is exactly the same size and tank design as our deluxe kit, just doesn't use the shorter lower i/c pipe.
First pull I noticed the boost was a good 2 psi higher than before. I had to turn it down just a little. Power went up, 333.5 hp and 339.1 ft lbs. Really pleased with this, that is a 13 hp increase and 10 ft lbs."
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...t=buschur+dyno
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"That is correct fixem2. I don't want to advertise that the power gain between the two FMIC kits are different. They dyno showed a slight increase between the two and I just don't personally believe that the lower pipe is worth 6 whp."
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...t=buschur+dyno
Apr 27, 2005, 12:40 PM
#29
Originally Posted by GREDDY
So who's got dyno numbers to back this up. Everyone claims 10awhp but no one has a dyno sheet to prove it. Can someone prove it so we all will go buy this lower intercooler pipping.
AMS claims about 7 CRANK HP from the lower IC pipes. I don't know, is 2-4whp worth what $300? Maybe if it provides better response.
