flat panel vs cone filter re. cold air/flow
May 16, 2005, 03:19 PM
#1
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flat panel vs cone filter re. cold air/flow
Ok, I have done a fair bit of research on which design really flows the best and actually flows the coolest..... I have had people tell me that 10 degree drop in temp = 1hp. If so most of the cone filter designs are drawing just about the hottest air in the engine bay. My 3.0 litre Alfa motor was better with the stock airbox flowing cooler air from a snorkel than the cone filter. What are the odds that the flat filters drawing cool air through the stock ram is going to out perform the cone filters? I am about to take the dive and nobody has done any comparisons I don't think.......
May 16, 2005, 03:26 PM
#2
it's just the air induction stay colder in the thick heat resistant box (stock air box).
Of Course, do some study on how our Karman Maf system works. How it measures the air, so even though you could have cold air, but your car may not run correct because of the maf sensor.
So, it's hard to say without having an extensive tests.
Of Course, do some study on how our Karman Maf system works. How it measures the air, so even though you could have cold air, but your car may not run correct because of the maf sensor.
So, it's hard to say without having an extensive tests.
May 16, 2005, 04:02 PM
#4
Speaking from direct experience...
The MAF pipe causes more issue than the "filter/box" choice. I've compared them back to back. You can run the stock box against the cone filter, with the OE MAF pipe with no apparent change in drivability/idle. However, take either with an aftermarket MAF pipe, and there is an obvious issue. This was best demonstrated with one of my customer's 272/272 HKS cam install. On the STOCK FLASH, the car spit, sputtered and stalled with the cone filter and aftermarket MAF pipe. Then the car was turned off, and the OE MAF pipe was put back on with the very same cone filter. Suddenly the car idled with the rhythm of an Olympic athlete's heart beat (signature lope of the cams). No more spitting, sputtering, or stalling. Drivability was "back to normal".
Last edited by Zeus; May 16, 2005 at 04:06 PM.
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May 16, 2005, 08:45 PM
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I will buy that. I guess whats missing here is that my earlier cars were normally aspirated. Since combustion is downstream of the turbo I would guess the turbo will "override" whatever temperature the air is before it gets there. It would be interesting to know however how sending cooler turbo charged air into the combustion process would work..any engineers?
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May 16, 2005, 09:11 PM
#9
Originally Posted by JohnA
What is the best flat panel available? are the performance gains negligible? Is there much improvment over the stock filter...woth the extra $50?
May 28, 2005, 12:23 PM
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I have a K&N drop in. I have had the same questions as you. I think that the answer is a cone filter and MAF pipe enclosed in an isolation/cold air box. Making your own box while not the easiest task is doable.
A cone filter or cone + MAF pipe NEEDs a tune (relflash or some type of EMS that you tune yourself).
Some think that by putting on a cone filter that they must be improving their car or adding bling. Whatever changes are made to some degree change the balance of variables that the manufacturer works hard to achieve. I hear that Dr EVo (Japanese guy that is the project manager for the EVO) does his homework.
A cone filter or cone + MAF pipe NEEDs a tune (relflash or some type of EMS that you tune yourself).
Some think that by putting on a cone filter that they must be improving their car or adding bling. Whatever changes are made to some degree change the balance of variables that the manufacturer works hard to achieve. I hear that Dr EVo (Japanese guy that is the project manager for the EVO) does his homework.
May 28, 2005, 01:05 PM
#12
Try it...
Originally Posted by Zeus
The MAF pipe causes more issue than the "filter/box" choice. I've compared them back to back. You can run the stock box against the cone filter, with the OE MAF pipe with no apparent change in drivability/idle. However, take either with an aftermarket MAF pipe, and there is an obvious issue. This was best demonstrated with one of my customer's 272/272 HKS cam install. On the STOCK FLASH, the car spit, sputtered and stalled with the cone filter and aftermarket MAF pipe. Then the car was turned off, and the OE MAF pipe was put back on with the very same cone filter. Suddenly the car idled with the rhythm of an Olympic athlete's heart beat (signature lope of the cams). No more spitting, sputtering, or stalling. Drivability was "back to normal".
May 28, 2005, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnA
What is the best flat panel available? are the performance gains negligible? Is there much improvment over the stock filter...woth the extra $50?
Got a ralliart drop-in for sale.
Used for about 500 miles and went to apex box w/filter.
PM if interested.
Thanks
May 30, 2005, 12:52 PM
#14
The one thing that I have to say about the air filter is that no matter what you think you are cooling down the air on a "cold air intake" as long as you have a turbo and an intercooler the cold air intake would not matter.
The reason why I say it does not mater is because the air is cold when suck by the air filter but then is extremely heat up again in the turbo, then is cool down by the intercooler and kindoff heat up a little bit again before it enters the manifold.
The botton line is that I belive the Cold air intake works much better in a non turbo car because it goes directly to the manifold wether the cold air intake on a turbo car is significantly affected by the turbo heat and the path of the intercooler.
The Mitsubishi Stealth R/T Twin turbos, Eagle talon turbos/eclipse/laser etc had a lot of difficulty cooling down the air due to the fact that the intercoolers itself are located in a hot and hidden spot making the cold air intake ineficcient.
I will rather worry much more about the flow on the filter itself, material made of, size, shape, lenght etc, etc.
my .50c
The reason why I say it does not mater is because the air is cold when suck by the air filter but then is extremely heat up again in the turbo, then is cool down by the intercooler and kindoff heat up a little bit again before it enters the manifold.
The botton line is that I belive the Cold air intake works much better in a non turbo car because it goes directly to the manifold wether the cold air intake on a turbo car is significantly affected by the turbo heat and the path of the intercooler.
The Mitsubishi Stealth R/T Twin turbos, Eagle talon turbos/eclipse/laser etc had a lot of difficulty cooling down the air due to the fact that the intercoolers itself are located in a hot and hidden spot making the cold air intake ineficcient.
I will rather worry much more about the flow on the filter itself, material made of, size, shape, lenght etc, etc.
my .50c
Jun 22, 2005, 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by fromWRXtoEVO
The one thing that I have to say about the air filter is that no matter what you think you are cooling down the air on a "cold air intake" as long as you have a turbo and an intercooler the cold air intake would not matter.
The reason why I say it does not mater is because the air is cold when suck by the air filter but then is extremely heat up again in the turbo, then is cool down by the intercooler and kindoff heat up a little bit again before it enters the manifold.
The botton line is that I belive the Cold air intake works much better in a non turbo car because it goes directly to the manifold wether the cold air intake on a turbo car is significantly affected by the turbo heat and the path of the intercooler.
The Mitsubishi Stealth R/T Twin turbos, Eagle talon turbos/eclipse/laser etc had a lot of difficulty cooling down the air due to the fact that the intercoolers itself are located in a hot and hidden spot making the cold air intake ineficcient.
I will rather worry much more about the flow on the filter itself, material made of, size, shape, lenght etc, etc.
my .50c
The reason why I say it does not mater is because the air is cold when suck by the air filter but then is extremely heat up again in the turbo, then is cool down by the intercooler and kindoff heat up a little bit again before it enters the manifold.
The botton line is that I belive the Cold air intake works much better in a non turbo car because it goes directly to the manifold wether the cold air intake on a turbo car is significantly affected by the turbo heat and the path of the intercooler.
The Mitsubishi Stealth R/T Twin turbos, Eagle talon turbos/eclipse/laser etc had a lot of difficulty cooling down the air due to the fact that the intercoolers itself are located in a hot and hidden spot making the cold air intake ineficcient.
I will rather worry much more about the flow on the filter itself, material made of, size, shape, lenght etc, etc.
my .50c