Finally going together!
May 24, 2005 | 12:41 AM
#1
Finally going together!
Okay I am finally starting to reassemble my car. Anyone who wants to see pics can go here http://mywebpages.comcast.net/silverevo
(56K Warning! The pictures are BIG!)
So far we honed the cylinders to .002 clearance on the pistons. Stock cylinders were not all the same size and the engine only had 6000 miles on it. A plateau hone was also used to remove the peaks from the cylinder wall.
We are also using Total Seals dry cylinder lubricant for breakin so if the cylinder walls look green it's because they are. This product is very interesting. Testing shows 0-1% leakdown after only 5 minutes of run time.
The pistons are Wiseco pistons from Buschur with Swain Tech Gold Coat ceramic coating on domes and PC-9 coating on skirts.
The rods are Eagle ESP rods also from Buschur. Using low-friction coated (Swain) factory bearings. These rods come with ARP 2000 bolts and were properly installed using a rod bolt stretch gauge. I can tell you that using a torque wrench alone they were not stretched to ARP spec and required extra torque to achive a proper stretch.
More to come. Cometic head gasket is on it's way and the head porting will begin this week so I should have it back in a couple of weeks. I wil update the link with more pages of pics as I go along.
I can't say enough about the quality of work my friend does on engines. He took all 4 out of round, different sized cylinders and returned them all to the same size.
This is in the car, by the way. Not to mention he had the plateau hone already so I didn't have to buy one.
Since his father retired he is the only good machinist left in the area.
(56K Warning! The pictures are BIG!)
So far we honed the cylinders to .002 clearance on the pistons. Stock cylinders were not all the same size and the engine only had 6000 miles on it. A plateau hone was also used to remove the peaks from the cylinder wall.
We are also using Total Seals dry cylinder lubricant for breakin so if the cylinder walls look green it's because they are. This product is very interesting. Testing shows 0-1% leakdown after only 5 minutes of run time.
The pistons are Wiseco pistons from Buschur with Swain Tech Gold Coat ceramic coating on domes and PC-9 coating on skirts.
The rods are Eagle ESP rods also from Buschur. Using low-friction coated (Swain) factory bearings. These rods come with ARP 2000 bolts and were properly installed using a rod bolt stretch gauge. I can tell you that using a torque wrench alone they were not stretched to ARP spec and required extra torque to achive a proper stretch.
More to come. Cometic head gasket is on it's way and the head porting will begin this week so I should have it back in a couple of weeks. I wil update the link with more pages of pics as I go along.
I can't say enough about the quality of work my friend does on engines. He took all 4 out of round, different sized cylinders and returned them all to the same size.
This is in the car, by the way. Not to mention he had the plateau hone already so I didn't have to buy one.
Since his father retired he is the only good machinist left in the area.
Last edited by timzcat; May 24, 2005 at 12:44 AM.
May 24, 2005 | 09:29 AM
#7
Nothing happened to the engine. It all started as cams and springs. Then my friend brought up porting the head since I was this deep in with the timing belt all disassembled. Once I pulled the head I said hell I am this far might as well put in the rods and the pistons.
This is going together with a stock ported turbo and all ported exhaust pieces from Buschur.
It is also getting intake side from Buschur. I will add more pictures of all of that stuff as it goes together.
This is going together with a stock ported turbo and all ported exhaust pieces from Buschur.
It is also getting intake side from Buschur. I will add more pictures of all of that stuff as it goes together.
Trending Topics
May 24, 2005 | 09:29 AM
#8
Originally Posted by timzcat
<snip>
We are also using Total Seals dry cylinder lubricant for breakin so if the cylinder walls look green it's because they are. This product is very interesting. Testing shows 0-1% leakdown after only 5 minutes of run time.
We are also using Total Seals dry cylinder lubricant for breakin so if the cylinder walls look green it's because they are. This product is very interesting. Testing shows 0-1% leakdown after only 5 minutes of run time.
May 24, 2005 | 08:26 PM
#9
It's called QuickSeat. It is a very fine dry powder lubricant.
It is spread on the cylinder wall after cleaning and it turns a greenish color if the walls are clean. If they are not clean from the honing then it turns silver or black. That is it's first huge advantage because you know the walls are clean, no second guessing.
From what I know I believe it's purpose is to get into the the valleys of the wall and provide a superior lubrication to the rings for breakin. Because it is so fine it better makes it's way into the valleys.
I think there are a lot of misconceptions about breakin for rings. There really is no breakin for rings if the cylinders are prepared properly. When a cylinder is bored or honed you are removing material to create a cross hatch to hold oil on the wall. The cutting action leaves peaks and valleys in the cylinder wall. The valleys are good but the peaks destroy the rings.
This is where a plateau or peak hone comes in. It's purpose is to remove the peaks in the cylinder since it is easier to remove because it is torn metal that is protruding off the wall.
The smoother the surface the better so long as there are the valleys to hold the oil up on the wall. The difference between a plateau hone is shiney as opposed to a dull finish.
Back to the original point. Total Seal claims that using this dry lubricant has been test on an engine dyno and shown that after 5 minutes the leakdown test showed only 0-1% leakdown. That is impressive in itself.
Here is Total Seals propaganda from their site.
QUICKSEAT®
Dry film cylinder wall lubricant provides the proper lubrication during the critical break-in period. Virtually eliminating ring related cylinder wall burnishing and glazing.
It is spread on the cylinder wall after cleaning and it turns a greenish color if the walls are clean. If they are not clean from the honing then it turns silver or black. That is it's first huge advantage because you know the walls are clean, no second guessing.
From what I know I believe it's purpose is to get into the the valleys of the wall and provide a superior lubrication to the rings for breakin. Because it is so fine it better makes it's way into the valleys.
I think there are a lot of misconceptions about breakin for rings. There really is no breakin for rings if the cylinders are prepared properly. When a cylinder is bored or honed you are removing material to create a cross hatch to hold oil on the wall. The cutting action leaves peaks and valleys in the cylinder wall. The valleys are good but the peaks destroy the rings.
This is where a plateau or peak hone comes in. It's purpose is to remove the peaks in the cylinder since it is easier to remove because it is torn metal that is protruding off the wall.
The smoother the surface the better so long as there are the valleys to hold the oil up on the wall. The difference between a plateau hone is shiney as opposed to a dull finish.
Back to the original point. Total Seal claims that using this dry lubricant has been test on an engine dyno and shown that after 5 minutes the leakdown test showed only 0-1% leakdown. That is impressive in itself.
Here is Total Seals propaganda from their site.
QUICKSEAT®
Dry film cylinder wall lubricant provides the proper lubrication during the critical break-in period. Virtually eliminating ring related cylinder wall burnishing and glazing.
May 25, 2005 | 07:17 AM
#10
Just a few notes...
Bore to piston clearances are determined typically by the expansion characteristics of the piston material. Forged pistons can be expected to require more clearance than what's listed as specs for cast pistons (factory). If the piston fit is tighter than spec, the result will be increased friction and scuffing, which will worsen as the heat is increased. A good idea is to consult with the piston manufacturer beforehand.
The cylinder walls shouldn't be expected to be perfectly round until the head is torqued in place. This is why a proper cylinder bore/hone will employ a torque plate, which mimics the torquing of the cylinder head, and corrects any static distortion in the block. If the cylinders are bored/honed perfectly round without a torque plate, there's a reasonable possibility they will not be perfectly round when the head is torqued into place.
Reports on Total Seal gapless rings have ranged from spectacular to dismal. To the best I can tell, proper bore finish and dry break-in are critical to seating of these rings. I'm tempted to try them for another application on which I am presently working, but be advised that unless their recommendations are followed to a 'T', one can expect poor sealing and significant oil consumption.
Just FYI.
Bore to piston clearances are determined typically by the expansion characteristics of the piston material. Forged pistons can be expected to require more clearance than what's listed as specs for cast pistons (factory). If the piston fit is tighter than spec, the result will be increased friction and scuffing, which will worsen as the heat is increased. A good idea is to consult with the piston manufacturer beforehand.
The cylinder walls shouldn't be expected to be perfectly round until the head is torqued in place. This is why a proper cylinder bore/hone will employ a torque plate, which mimics the torquing of the cylinder head, and corrects any static distortion in the block. If the cylinders are bored/honed perfectly round without a torque plate, there's a reasonable possibility they will not be perfectly round when the head is torqued into place.
Reports on Total Seal gapless rings have ranged from spectacular to dismal. To the best I can tell, proper bore finish and dry break-in are critical to seating of these rings. I'm tempted to try them for another application on which I am presently working, but be advised that unless their recommendations are followed to a 'T', one can expect poor sealing and significant oil consumption.
Just FYI.
May 25, 2005 | 06:18 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Ted B
Just a few notes...
Bore to piston clearances are determined typically by the expansion characteristics of the piston material. Forged pistons can be expected to require more clearance than what's listed as specs for cast pistons (factory). If the piston fit is tighter than spec, the result will be increased friction and scuffing, which will worsen as the heat is increased. A good idea is to consult with the piston manufacturer beforehand.
I am using the manufacturers specs. They are .003 piston to wall clearance. The is a good .001 of low friction coating on the skirts. This is why we went to .002 clearance. I know the pistons actual size with no cating and have the full spec sheet for the pistons with all the data. Remeber I am not making it up as I go along. I have a professional machinist that did this work.
The cylinder walls shouldn't be expected to be perfectly round until the head is torqued in place. This is why a proper cylinder bore/hone will employ a torque plate, which mimics the torquing of the cylinder head, and corrects any static distortion in the block. If the cylinders are bored/honed perfectly round without a torque plate, there's a reasonable possibility they will not be perfectly round when the head is torqued into place.
I did not have a torque plate avaiable in that size so that was not an option. Heat is the biggest enemy when honing that will cause distortion of the cylinders. For that reason the coolant was still in the block and actually kept the cylinders cool while honing. There is also some variance between bolts and studs. Studs lend themselves to less distortion due to the bolt reach. Bolts only reach a portion of the way down the hole as opposed to a stud which is fully seated in the threads.
Once the stud is installed it really is designed to stretch on torque through it's center section and not in the threads. So there is less distortion.
Reports on Total Seal gapless rings have ranged from spectacular to dismal. To the best I can tell, proper bore finish and dry break-in are critical to seating of these rings. I'm tempted to try them for another application on which I am presently working, but be advised that unless their recommendations are followed to a 'T', one can expect poor sealing and significant oil consumption.
I am not using gapless rings, just QuickSeat lubricant. I am using Wiseco rings.
Just FYI.
Bore to piston clearances are determined typically by the expansion characteristics of the piston material. Forged pistons can be expected to require more clearance than what's listed as specs for cast pistons (factory). If the piston fit is tighter than spec, the result will be increased friction and scuffing, which will worsen as the heat is increased. A good idea is to consult with the piston manufacturer beforehand.
I am using the manufacturers specs. They are .003 piston to wall clearance. The is a good .001 of low friction coating on the skirts. This is why we went to .002 clearance. I know the pistons actual size with no cating and have the full spec sheet for the pistons with all the data. Remeber I am not making it up as I go along. I have a professional machinist that did this work.
The cylinder walls shouldn't be expected to be perfectly round until the head is torqued in place. This is why a proper cylinder bore/hone will employ a torque plate, which mimics the torquing of the cylinder head, and corrects any static distortion in the block. If the cylinders are bored/honed perfectly round without a torque plate, there's a reasonable possibility they will not be perfectly round when the head is torqued into place.
I did not have a torque plate avaiable in that size so that was not an option. Heat is the biggest enemy when honing that will cause distortion of the cylinders. For that reason the coolant was still in the block and actually kept the cylinders cool while honing. There is also some variance between bolts and studs. Studs lend themselves to less distortion due to the bolt reach. Bolts only reach a portion of the way down the hole as opposed to a stud which is fully seated in the threads.
Once the stud is installed it really is designed to stretch on torque through it's center section and not in the threads. So there is less distortion.
Reports on Total Seal gapless rings have ranged from spectacular to dismal. To the best I can tell, proper bore finish and dry break-in are critical to seating of these rings. I'm tempted to try them for another application on which I am presently working, but be advised that unless their recommendations are followed to a 'T', one can expect poor sealing and significant oil consumption.
I am not using gapless rings, just QuickSeat lubricant. I am using Wiseco rings.
Just FYI.
Jun 28, 2005 | 10:30 PM
#14
Thanks.
Unfortunately the head resurfacer dropped it's bit while resurfacing the head so it left a .070 gouge across the head. Of all the heads for it to happen on.
Fortunately we sent it out to a welder and had it fixed, milled the head and you can't even tell. The pics on the website are after the repair if that's any proof.
Head is on and most of the intake is hooked back up. I am hoping to be like 90% done by the end of the weekend. I still need a couple small parts and am waiting on a couple.
My turbo housing is still at the coater's but I have my oil pan and stuff back. New approach to keeping heat out. I jethot coated the oil pan, turbo drain pipe, starter heatshield and PS heatshield. I hate wraps because they get dirty and hold oil, etc.
Unfortunately the head resurfacer dropped it's bit while resurfacing the head so it left a .070 gouge across the head. Of all the heads for it to happen on.
Fortunately we sent it out to a welder and had it fixed, milled the head and you can't even tell. The pics on the website are after the repair if that's any proof.
Head is on and most of the intake is hooked back up. I am hoping to be like 90% done by the end of the weekend. I still need a couple small parts and am waiting on a couple.
My turbo housing is still at the coater's but I have my oil pan and stuff back. New approach to keeping heat out. I jethot coated the oil pan, turbo drain pipe, starter heatshield and PS heatshield. I hate wraps because they get dirty and hold oil, etc.
