KILTERMAN

iTrader: (9)

not to add fuel to WarrTalons fire, but...

WarrTalon, If you look at RalliArtEVOVIII's sig he is also looking for a grounding kit, but ofcourse nothing from EBAY. This alone should inform you of what your matching wits with.

No Offense by the way

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

My point wasn't the recirculation vs vta argument, I personally hate the sound.. My point was the drivers who VTA on a MAF Equipped car, and make the adjustment necessary to get the car to idle and not stall between shifts at lower loads, means you have a pretty significant spring pressure to hold it closed, that will result in surge in daily driving..

Now, I do run the HKS SSQV, and It does surge at very low loads, but it holds boost, I do run it recirculating, or vented, depending on my particular mood, however I have a blowthrough MAF sensor so I have no drivability issues whatsoever, it puts me in a position where I can test a different BOV any time I feel like it since it takes a few minutes to drop it in.. I've tested many different ones, the HKS is the only unit that didn't require any adjustment for it to idle well, and hold boost well, but it does result in some compressor surge if you don't get a perfect vacuum signal to it on lift..

In all, I just wanted to point out that most of the people who don't have idle issues with a VTA setup, are making sacrifices to use it in daily driving, and the adjustments required for it to work (or even running the SSQV) will result in surging because to prevent surge, the valve needs to be open whenever the engine is under vacuum and still generating positive pressure on the upper intercooler pipe. Otherwise it results in strange idle characteristics, RPM raising between shifts, moderate to severe compressor surge at part throttle low load driving.. etc.. the noise is a personal preference so I dont point that out (I hate it so I always complain about it on my car and the novelty got old real quick)

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

And its not that your sacrificing idle for noise.. your sacrificing drivability for noise.. its not just your idle, its fuel consumption, drivability, and safety (a panic stop after loading the engine results in a stall in the middle of an intersection, etc..)

I do understand your point, and I do appreciate your playing devils advocate and asked this as a question, but it comes up often.

Ultimately people are going to do what they want, and people are a bit uptight about the noise because of the connotation it has, our cars aren't inexpensive cars cobbled together with inexpensive parts and driven by kids aspiring to be Vin Diesel, but that is the impression that very loud exhaust and BOV's gives and many of us try to avoid that image.. (Sadly enough, as the cars get more modified and NEED higher performance parts, you end up fitting that image anyway.. LOL)

Nez136

iTrader: (10)

i have been runnig the HKS VTA in 2 Evo's now, my '03 i had issues untill i got Engine Managment, as for my MR it runs fine, i did not notice any compressor surge at all, car runs fine at idle, between gear shifts, and at high speeds.

glgz

Check my old post for help with getting the car to idle with EIDS and a cold engine. I ran into the same problem.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=103474

Scroll down to post 5 for the fix.

humpevo311

iTrader: (4)

I think flutter from not enough pressure to fully open the valve is often confused with the surge or stalling of the compressor wheel inside the housing. They sound completely different. I have heard plenty of turbo's surge and 9/10 times it under load not at partial throttle and not letting off the gas at highway speeds. Surge is a big time misconception on here and on other boards. Not every turbocharged vehicle needs a bov, or recirc valve.

fre

iTrader: (4)

Amen that's part of what I was trying to say. I doubt I am getting surge, seeing the gt35r kit came with the tial BOV, but I still stall like a ***** because of the tuning not surging.

Oh and interesting post on the cold start problem with EIDS units. I tried breaking every wire with a toggle switch EXCEPT the TPS wire lol. I guess I will do that and be done with it.

4TUN8

iTrader: (18)

Run the stock or JDM MR diverter with an open cone filter and you can hear the pressure get blown off at every shift. Best of both worlds imo.

glgz

Yeah it is still working great today on my car. I just try the switch off before I start it and if I forget to flip it it's no big deal has the car just runs like it did before the EIDS was installed.

deadbeatrec

iTrader: (9)

ok listen, turbo charged cars were designed for the access pressure to go back into the system, not to blow off into atmosphere. VTA were only invented for the sound, thats it ans thats all. now i have have many expierence with bov's and diverter valves, and let me tell u that the sound is not worth the god damn headach that it gives u. if u are just a person who just like to cruze and impress people then chance the vta, but if u want a performer then upgrade ur stock plactic diverter valve with a nice one that u can change spring pressure (forge on is great) .and thats all i have to say about that.

PoorBoys

iTrader: (1)

Was that your reasoning FOR VTAs? Gotta balance it out after the long rant against. Luckily those of us with VTAs have simple minds.

PoorBoys

iTrader: (1)

Seriously tho, where did you pick up your blowthrough MAF? I do love the sound of VTAs but I want to take care of my car.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Well, you are partially correct, for the most part most people don't know what surge is or sounds like, but on a fairly small turbo like the Evo's, you WILL get surging at part throttle. But the fluttering sound is not surge, surge is a pretty unique sound.. as long as there's enough pressure in the upper intercooler pipe and nowhere to go, it can happen.

And its true that not every turbocharged car needs a BOV/DV I've seen plenty of older turbo cars without any, and supecharged cars, simply put, their running pretty low boost and have pretty loose clearances, it still has a "surge area" (additional volume in the pipes due to such low boost) that it was just not necessary. Also some purpose built cars that don't see any on/off throttle driving.

HOWEVER, not allowing the Evo to vent excess boost properly, leads to compressor surge.... PERIOD.. Whether its severe or not depends on a few things, but to sacrifice the potential longevity of the turbocharger and drivability for the sound, well, thats just rediculous.

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Okay, I can agree with a portion of your statement.. you are correct that many turbocharged cars were designed to recirculate all the air back into the system assuming the air is metered before the diverter valve. Not every vehicle was designed that way. The design was mainly to keep things quieter since noise and emissions are of primary concern to most manufacturers.

VTA was not only invented for the sound, Blowoff valves were invented to relieve excess pressure, on supercharged cars, they were called pop-off valves since they would pop open if the engine backfired or couldn't ingest all the air given to it. It just happens that many earlier cars didn't matter whether the excess pressure was vented back into the system or to the atmosphere. Just like people take valvecover breathers and don't plumb it back into the inake (In that case its a combination of lazyness and nowhere to put it)

What my point is, the Evo will never run optimally if you VTA without taking the necessary steps.. but forcing a valve that wants to be partially open under a vacuum to be closed, ISNT a solution, its a crutch...

There's obviously many of you who just can't grasp the concept that VTA Isn't better, and it doesn't solve any more problems then it creates. If you like the sound, Fine.. No biggie, but understand that for most people, thats all it gives you (among possible drivability headaches)

MalibuJack

iTrader: (5)

Partially it was, I wanted to avoid the sound, and I did for some time by using a crushed 1G DV, and others.. but most of them began to blow open over 22psi without significantly increasing its spring pressure and giving it the most direct boost/vacuum source I could.. So I switched to a recirculated HKS SSQV, only with no MAF and no silenced airbox, it was still too loud, so I bit the bullet and removed the recirculation.

anyone interested in a blowthrough MAF should check out several of the threads I've posted over the past 2 years.. search under "blowthrough Maf" however keep in mind everything comes with a price, either monetary or compromise, so you have to weigh the value of what you want, against the expense to accomplish it. My needs were not in any way associated with a BOV, it was a secondary consideration.

Now with all of that said.. Yes, I do VTA, No I don't have a stock Maf, therefore no, I don't have ANY drivability issues related to it. However I will go on record saying that I absolutely HATE HATE HATE the sound, it annoys me and I'm embarrassed by it, but I also realized it was part of the cost of "doing business" and a compromise I needed to make in order to prevent spurious boost leaks.