Exedy Organic Clutch Kit vs ACT HD Street Disc Kit
Jul 18, 2005, 11:45 AM
#91
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Originally Posted by MattGold
We are very conservative with all our power ratings... figure better leave something for chance since so many things can effect torque capacity... Gear ratio, tire selection, type of racing, etc, etc.
Regardless, you may have read an estimate at the wheels rather than that the flywheel.
Let's say this was the case and 350WHP was recommended. Using a 15% driveline loss, you can be safe assuming the clutch will hold approx 402 Ft/Lbs at the flywheel...
Additionally, we usually tack on an additional 10-15% "conservative" rating and lower our estimates a tad more. We would much rather you buy a clutch that will exceed your expecations, rather then disappoint you.
Regardless, you may have read an estimate at the wheels rather than that the flywheel.
Let's say this was the case and 350WHP was recommended. Using a 15% driveline loss, you can be safe assuming the clutch will hold approx 402 Ft/Lbs at the flywheel...
Additionally, we usually tack on an additional 10-15% "conservative" rating and lower our estimates a tad more. We would much rather you buy a clutch that will exceed your expecations, rather then disappoint you.
Jul 18, 2005, 12:07 PM
#92
Originally Posted by ACTman
fortunately, neither Exedy or ACT uses cooking oil for a friction material... but you are totally right that friction is critical. What I am saying is that the coeffiecients for different common organic materials are not much different and very difficult to get exact comparisons even under the best conditions. Now if you are comparing to Kevlar or Sintered Iron sure, you are talking about 20% less or up to 50% more friction repectively.
It is our opinion, that organic froction materials ARE different, and suit certain applications better than others. Hence the reason OEMs specify UF-71 for some applications that require a moderate performance material, and UF-91 for others. UF-71 is a single layer organic material, that does not have as high of a coefficient or as high of a burst strength as it's UF-91 cousin which is a dual layer disc with a burst capacity of 17,000RPMs.
In our tests (and we do test them all) we see a maximum of 30% and average of 20% increase of friction coefficient on our UF-91 facing when compared to other organic materials on the market (F808, F202, UF-71).
To make sure everyone is on the same page with this technicle mumbo-jumbo, a HIGHER friction coefficient holds HIGHER Torque capacity... a LOWER friction coefficient holds LOWER Torque capacity. UF-91 is standard on our performance Stage 1 applications, and is the reason we are able to hold similar power with a lower clamp load (pedal pressure).
As for the future... Exedy Japan has developed a UF-91S facing which has an even HIGHER friction coefficient, and burst strength, exceeding 20,000RPMs (on a 200mm disc).
As always, Exedy will continue to invent, innovate and improve clutches... that's a promise.
Jul 18, 2005, 01:07 PM
#94
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Originally Posted by MattGold
LoL... when did you guys switch from the Canola Oil?
It is our opinion, that organic froction materials ARE different, and suit certain applications better than others. Hence the reason OEMs specify UF-71 for some applications that require a moderate performance material, and UF-91 for others. UF-71 is a single layer organic material, that does not have as high of a coefficient or as high of a burst strength as it's UF-91 cousin which is a dual layer disc with a burst capacity of 17,000RPMs.
In our tests (and we do test them all) we see a maximum of 30% and average of 20% increase of friction coefficient on our UF-91 facing when compared to other organic materials on the market (F808, F202, UF-71).
To make sure everyone is on the same page with this technicle mumbo-jumbo, a HIGHER friction coefficient holds HIGHER Torque capacity... a LOWER friction coefficient holds LOWER Torque capacity. UF-91 is standard on our performance Stage 1 applications, and is the reason we are able to hold similar power with a lower clamp load (pedal pressure).
As for the future... Exedy Japan has developed a UF-91S facing which has an even HIGHER friction coefficient, and burst strength, exceeding 20,000RPMs (on a 200mm disc).
As always, Exedy will continue to invent, innovate and improve clutches... that's a promise.
It is our opinion, that organic froction materials ARE different, and suit certain applications better than others. Hence the reason OEMs specify UF-71 for some applications that require a moderate performance material, and UF-91 for others. UF-71 is a single layer organic material, that does not have as high of a coefficient or as high of a burst strength as it's UF-91 cousin which is a dual layer disc with a burst capacity of 17,000RPMs.
In our tests (and we do test them all) we see a maximum of 30% and average of 20% increase of friction coefficient on our UF-91 facing when compared to other organic materials on the market (F808, F202, UF-71).
To make sure everyone is on the same page with this technicle mumbo-jumbo, a HIGHER friction coefficient holds HIGHER Torque capacity... a LOWER friction coefficient holds LOWER Torque capacity. UF-91 is standard on our performance Stage 1 applications, and is the reason we are able to hold similar power with a lower clamp load (pedal pressure).
As for the future... Exedy Japan has developed a UF-91S facing which has an even HIGHER friction coefficient, and burst strength, exceeding 20,000RPMs (on a 200mm disc).
As always, Exedy will continue to invent, innovate and improve clutches... that's a promise.
Jul 18, 2005, 02:11 PM
#95
Originally Posted by ACTman
While we don't have the deep pockets that Exedy does for extensive friction testing, our laboratory tests (only three samplings of each) were definitely not as generous regarding the UF91 and 71 linings, good stuff though. I can't fault it, but it's not all that. 20% average increase? That means that your Stage 1 should hold about 540 ftlbs (at peak) according to my math (stock clutch about 370 ftlbs, +22% for clamp load and +20% for friction). That's hilarious! Don't believe everything you hear over there Matt.
However, the tests don't lie - and as you know, Exedy spares no expense in testing... When supplying Subaru, Honda, Toyota and Mitsubishi...along with practically the entire automotive performance aftermarket - we must make sure our quality is 110%. Im sure you of all people can appreciate that.
Regardless, I can send you over some test results and you can make what you want of them. I can't look at data and say to our engineers "that's hilarious", all I can do is use it as a number and inject logic when we rate our clutches and add that 10-15% margin as I previously metioned.
As far as believing everything I hear over here... I bet the next thing you're gonna tell me is the Japanese lost the war. LoL... good one.
Jul 18, 2005, 04:56 PM
#96
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Originally Posted by MattGold
However, the tests don't lie - and as you know, Exedy spares no expense in testing... When supplying Subaru, Honda, Toyota and Mitsubishi...along with practically the entire automotive performance aftermarket - we must make sure our quality is 110%. Im sure you of all people can appreciate that.
...I can't look at data and say to our engineers "that's hilarious", all I can do is use it as a number and inject logic when we rate our clutches...
...I can't look at data and say to our engineers "that's hilarious", all I can do is use it as a number and inject logic when we rate our clutches...
...I think people might argue about quality being 110% on the EVO OE Exedy clutch. Sorry, cheap jab, please ignore.
Jul 18, 2005, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by k270kmh
ACTman I'm waiting your answer in my e-mail.
I need tech details about the Evo 7 specific clutch.
Thanks
I need tech details about the Evo 7 specific clutch.
Thanks
Jul 19, 2005, 11:04 AM
#101
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Originally Posted by k270kmh
Do you have a private e-mail?
Jul 21, 2005, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by zstryder
How does the ACT compare to the Exedy Stage 2? (single plate cerametallic, 4 puck, I think)