Patient Mr. White Rabbit on operating table
Jul 18, 2005, 09:30 AM
#301
Are people losing sight here? I am in no way defending anyone here. But the 441 FP claimed was done on race gas, most likely a fairly aggressive tune also. Will most people see these gains? Probably not. I highly doubt there are any inflated numbers, but you never know. I am all for Dave testing these and want to see the results.
Jul 18, 2005, 09:43 AM
#302
I found the below post by Forced Performance to be compelling and was one of the reasons that I went with the White Rabbit. What I wanted was TME spool-up and an extra 30 whp for the incremental cost over a regular TME ($500 for 30 whp is a good deal in my book). I still have no reason to believe that I won't see that gain. On a car like mine with a driver like me (no flat foot shifting, etc.), that 30 whp could make the difference between a high 11 sec pass and a low 12 sec pass. It would have been nice to have that gain on pump gas too, but I wasn't counting on that.
So, FP did give an AB comparison and that's what I relied on. I never for a second thought that I could bolt this turbo on my Buschur Stg 4 and pull over 400 whp on the stock ECU on pump, just like I never believed that I could pull close to an 11.6@117 on my Buschur Stg 4 package (the advertised track number for the kit when I got it). I knew as soon as I saw those huge dyno numbers posted by Tym's shop that there would be rabbit bashing to follow eventually. It's too bad because I still think that this turbo is worth it even if the gain is only seen on race gas at the track. Now if it can't pull an extra 30 whp at race gas boost levels, I WILL be disappointed.
RichJ
So, FP did give an AB comparison and that's what I relied on. I never for a second thought that I could bolt this turbo on my Buschur Stg 4 and pull over 400 whp on the stock ECU on pump, just like I never believed that I could pull close to an 11.6@117 on my Buschur Stg 4 package (the advertised track number for the kit when I got it). I knew as soon as I saw those huge dyno numbers posted by Tym's shop that there would be rabbit bashing to follow eventually. It's too bad because I still think that this turbo is worth it even if the gain is only seen on race gas at the track. Now if it can't pull an extra 30 whp at race gas boost levels, I WILL be disappointed.
RichJ
Regarding A-B dyno graphs for stock to WR, we dont have any. We did all of our A-B work against a EVO6.5 TME turbo instead of a stock turbo. The dyno graph below shows RUN 008 for the TME against RUN 027 for the White Rabbit. These runs, like most all the runs we did during testing, were made using race gas at 25psi and 11.5-11.8 A/F ratio.
This graph demonstrates the difference in spool up between the TME turbo and the White rabbit turbocharger on the same engine with all other paramters held constant held constant. It is not a demonstration of an all out glory pull on either unit. The car used in this test was a 2.0 with typical bolton mods.
This graph demonstrates the difference in spool up between the TME turbo and the White rabbit turbocharger on the same engine with all other paramters held constant held constant. It is not a demonstration of an all out glory pull on either unit. The car used in this test was a 2.0 with typical bolton mods.
Jul 18, 2005, 10:38 AM
#303
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Rich,
did they have cams in this car ?
the WR on my 05 didnt even come close to the Torque number in this graph
I'm about 50 ft lbs of torque less.
do you know what Boost controller they are using ?
David
did they have cams in this car ?
the WR on my 05 didnt even come close to the Torque number in this graph
I'm about 50 ft lbs of torque less.
do you know what Boost controller they are using ?
David
Originally Posted by EVO8LTW
I found the below post by Forced Performance to be compelling and was one of the reasons that I went with the White Rabbit. What I wanted was TME spool-up and an extra 30 whp for the incremental cost over a regular TME ($500 for 30 whp is a good deal in my book). I still have no reason to believe that I won't see that gain. On a car like mine with a driver like me (no flat foot shifting, etc.), that 30 whp could make the difference between a high 11 sec pass and a low 12 sec pass. It would have been nice to have that gain on pump gas too, but I wasn't counting on that.
So, FP did give an AB comparison and that's what I relied on. I never for a second thought that I could bolt this turbo on my Buschur Stg 4 and pull over 400 whp on the stock ECU on pump, just like I never believed that I could pull close to an 11.6@117 on my Buschur Stg 4 package (the advertised track number for the kit when I got it). I knew as soon as I saw those huge dyno numbers posted by Tym's shop that there would be rabbit bashing to follow eventually. It's too bad because I still think that this turbo is worth it even if the gain is only seen on race gas at the track. Now if it can't pull an extra 30 whp at race gas boost levels, I WILL be disappointed.
RichJ
So, FP did give an AB comparison and that's what I relied on. I never for a second thought that I could bolt this turbo on my Buschur Stg 4 and pull over 400 whp on the stock ECU on pump, just like I never believed that I could pull close to an 11.6@117 on my Buschur Stg 4 package (the advertised track number for the kit when I got it). I knew as soon as I saw those huge dyno numbers posted by Tym's shop that there would be rabbit bashing to follow eventually. It's too bad because I still think that this turbo is worth it even if the gain is only seen on race gas at the track. Now if it can't pull an extra 30 whp at race gas boost levels, I WILL be disappointed.
RichJ
Jul 18, 2005, 10:45 AM
#304
Originally Posted by superman105
Rich,
did they have cams in this car ?
the WR on my 05 didnt even come close to the Torque number in this graph
I'm about 50 ft lbs of torque less.
do you know what Boost controller they are using ?
David
did they have cams in this car ?
the WR on my 05 didnt even come close to the Torque number in this graph
I'm about 50 ft lbs of torque less.
do you know what Boost controller they are using ?
David
About your dyno results, were you running a race gas map and higher boost? Remember, this graph is on race gas at 25 psi. How much boost were you running on the dyno?
Jul 18, 2005, 10:45 AM
#305
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
If we get taken up on the dyno offer, which as usual we probably won't as it seems people don't want any actual results.
I will test the stock turbo with the best tune we can put in it at 20 psi on pump gas. Then put race gas in the car and test again at 25 psi.
Then install the WR, test on race gas at 25 psi and then put pump back in and test at 20 psi.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I will test the stock turbo with the best tune we can put in it at 20 psi on pump gas. Then put race gas in the car and test again at 25 psi.
Then install the WR, test on race gas at 25 psi and then put pump back in and test at 20 psi.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Jul 18, 2005, 10:50 AM
#306
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My Dyno run was with
2 gallon of 91 mix with 5 gallon of 101 = 97-98~
Boost was 27 PSI tapper to 21-22 PSI
but Temp was 103F
2 gallon of 91 mix with 5 gallon of 101 = 97-98~
Boost was 27 PSI tapper to 21-22 PSI
but Temp was 103F
Originally Posted by EVO8LTW
I don't know the details. I suppose you could call FP, find out and post the answer for us all
About your dyno results, were you running a race gas map and higher boost? Remember, this graph is on race gas at 25 psi. How much boost were you running on the dyno?
About your dyno results, were you running a race gas map and higher boost? Remember, this graph is on race gas at 25 psi. How much boost were you running on the dyno?
Jul 18, 2005, 11:27 AM
#307
Originally Posted by superman105
My Dyno run was with
2 gallon of 91 mix with 5 gallon of 101 = 97-98~
Boost was 27 PSI tapper to 21-22 PSI
but Temp was 103F
2 gallon of 91 mix with 5 gallon of 101 = 97-98~
Boost was 27 PSI tapper to 21-22 PSI
but Temp was 103F
I didn't dyno until later that night. Mine was about 3 gallons of 91 with 7 gallons of 101. I don't know what boost was (I'm assuming it's a similar boost taper to David's). I was with every bolt-on (including 3' 02 housing) but without cams or cam gears. I put down 340 hp, 330 tq. It was "only" 90 degrees when I ran. We're both running the JDM MR BOV.
My 91 run was 306, 306 at 87 degrees. For reference, David was running like 325, 317 but about 10 degrees warmer.
Last edited by Erik@MIL.SPEC; Jul 18, 2005 at 11:29 AM.
Jul 18, 2005, 11:37 AM
#308
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Hey Eric
what's up
did you try it with the MBC ?
David
what's up
did you try it with the MBC ?
David
Originally Posted by atlvalet
I didn't dyno until later that night. Mine was about 3 gallons of 91 with 7 gallons of 101. I don't know what boost was (I'm assuming it's a similar boost taper to David's). I was with every bolt-on (including 3' 02 housing) but without cams or cam gears. I put down 340 hp, 330 tq. It was "only" 90 degrees when I ran. We're both running the JDM MR BOV.
My 91 run was 306, 306 at 87 degrees. For reference, David was running like 325, 317 but about 10 degrees warmer.
My 91 run was 306, 306 at 87 degrees. For reference, David was running like 325, 317 but about 10 degrees warmer.
Jul 18, 2005, 12:18 PM
#309
No MBC. It was freakin' 11pm and the finace was about to kill me since I said I'd be home around 5pm.
I am happy with my WR since A) this was the first tune and B) my car makes similar power to ones with cams and test pipes on 91. That ain't too shabby. Look at Alex Alex's car and mine in the Muy Caliente thread. They're pretty close (his is higher though).
THat's within the 20whp claims FP is putting out, if you ask me.
I am happy with my WR since A) this was the first tune and B) my car makes similar power to ones with cams and test pipes on 91. That ain't too shabby. Look at Alex Alex's car and mine in the Muy Caliente thread. They're pretty close (his is higher though).
THat's within the 20whp claims FP is putting out, if you ask me.
Jul 18, 2005, 01:09 PM
#310
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
If we get taken up on the dyno offer, which as usual we probably won't as it seems people don't want any actual results.
I will test the stock turbo with the best tune we can put in it at 20 psi on pump gas. Then put race gas in the car and test again at 25 psi.
Then install the WR, test on race gas at 25 psi and then put pump back in and test at 20 psi.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I will test the stock turbo with the best tune we can put in it at 20 psi on pump gas. Then put race gas in the car and test again at 25 psi.
Then install the WR, test on race gas at 25 psi and then put pump back in and test at 20 psi.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Jul 18, 2005, 02:05 PM
#311
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
If we get taken up on the dyno offer, which as usual we probably won't as it seems people don't want any actual results.
I will test the stock turbo with the best tune we can put in it at 20 psi on pump gas. Then put race gas in the car and test again at 25 psi.
Then install the WR, test on race gas at 25 psi and then put pump back in and test at 20 psi.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I will test the stock turbo with the best tune we can put in it at 20 psi on pump gas. Then put race gas in the car and test again at 25 psi.
Then install the WR, test on race gas at 25 psi and then put pump back in and test at 20 psi.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Jul 18, 2005, 05:03 PM
#312
The offer would have you paying for nothing more than the WR turbo you brought with you.
I'll tell you guys, after the *** kicking I just took from Robert in the other forum about this I have to say nevermind.
I am not allowed to sell these turbos anyway, I was only offering for some back to back data to put an end to all of it. I could honestly care less if it works or doesn't as I said, I can't sell the part, even though I would like to.
I am going to completely refrain from posting anything at all about the WR anymore, if my name comes up or something about me I will respond, beyond that the little bunny can hop all it wants or it can run out in front of a truck for all I care.
Have a great day, welcome to the world of liars and backstabbers.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I'll tell you guys, after the *** kicking I just took from Robert in the other forum about this I have to say nevermind.
I am not allowed to sell these turbos anyway, I was only offering for some back to back data to put an end to all of it. I could honestly care less if it works or doesn't as I said, I can't sell the part, even though I would like to.
I am going to completely refrain from posting anything at all about the WR anymore, if my name comes up or something about me I will respond, beyond that the little bunny can hop all it wants or it can run out in front of a truck for all I care.
Have a great day, welcome to the world of liars and backstabbers.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Jul 18, 2005, 05:06 PM
#313
David, isn't that par for the course in the automotive world (this comment should not be seen as taking sides, as I have the WR and am happy with it).
Half the problem ends up being a he said/he said (we are talking about cars, after all) or a miscommunication over some internet posting that was taken the wrong way.
Half the problem ends up being a he said/he said (we are talking about cars, after all) or a miscommunication over some internet posting that was taken the wrong way.
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