20G turbo upgrade from Buschur Racing.
Aug 16, 2005, 08:21 AM
#226
Interesting... the lack of surge compared to the stock turbo is what I find so damn appealing about my WR. I've obviously yet to give your turbo a spin yet, but thus far, I've yet to drive a smoother turbo. I could get the stocker to buck pretty damn hard.
BTW one of the biggest problems I'm seeing on the rabbit is improper wastegate adjustment. Seems everyone it too tight or too loose... usually the latter. Those are the ones not making the power.
Hope you get this worked out David, the more turbo choices we have, the better.
BTW one of the biggest problems I'm seeing on the rabbit is improper wastegate adjustment. Seems everyone it too tight or too loose... usually the latter. Those are the ones not making the power.
Hope you get this worked out David, the more turbo choices we have, the better.
Aug 16, 2005, 08:47 AM
#227
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT 20G INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!
First want to say I LOVE this turbo. Very happy with the performance and steady boost it is providing on my car.
Next, this weekend I had a EVO owner come in that we are doing a large build up on his car. I told him when he came in for the shootout I would let him drive my RS and after he did then he would know for sure that the 20G was the turbo for us to use on his car.
We pull out of the parking lot and it looks like he is already impressed. We start out of town and I don't know what he is doing at this point as the car is jerking and bucking and compressor surging, I say, "Damn, what are you doing?! This car has never done this before." He says, " I don't drive just at WOT, I have to modulate the throttle in boost in a corner." I am thinking, "WTF is going on, this is horrible." He drives it for 10 miles or so and says how impressed he is with how fast the car is, but the compressor surge isn't goign to cut it.
You know guys, I have let probably 6 guys drive this car since the 20G has been on it and nobody has had it surge. It is something to do with the technique of this high boost-part throttle driving style of a road racer. This turbo is NOT going to work if that is how you drive. Very odd.
I want to get this out there. We haven't shipped a turbo yet, if any of you think this may apply to your driving style DO NOT let us ship your order. Call and we will gladly return your cores or replace them with new ones, whatever it takes. I don't want anyone unhappy with this turbo.
I am both pissed off and glad at the same time that I discovered this before I could get the word out. It is very very odd to me.
As a side note we dyno'd a WR this weekend. As the car was coming up on boost on the dyno I could hear it surging too. That is puzzling as I have only read good things about it being road raced, any of you getting that surging at high boost part throttle with that turbo?
Thanks for reading,
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
First want to say I LOVE this turbo. Very happy with the performance and steady boost it is providing on my car.
Next, this weekend I had a EVO owner come in that we are doing a large build up on his car. I told him when he came in for the shootout I would let him drive my RS and after he did then he would know for sure that the 20G was the turbo for us to use on his car.
We pull out of the parking lot and it looks like he is already impressed. We start out of town and I don't know what he is doing at this point as the car is jerking and bucking and compressor surging, I say, "Damn, what are you doing?! This car has never done this before." He says, " I don't drive just at WOT, I have to modulate the throttle in boost in a corner." I am thinking, "WTF is going on, this is horrible." He drives it for 10 miles or so and says how impressed he is with how fast the car is, but the compressor surge isn't goign to cut it.
You know guys, I have let probably 6 guys drive this car since the 20G has been on it and nobody has had it surge. It is something to do with the technique of this high boost-part throttle driving style of a road racer. This turbo is NOT going to work if that is how you drive. Very odd.
I want to get this out there. We haven't shipped a turbo yet, if any of you think this may apply to your driving style DO NOT let us ship your order. Call and we will gladly return your cores or replace them with new ones, whatever it takes. I don't want anyone unhappy with this turbo.
I am both pissed off and glad at the same time that I discovered this before I could get the word out. It is very very odd to me.
As a side note we dyno'd a WR this weekend. As the car was coming up on boost on the dyno I could hear it surging too. That is puzzling as I have only read good things about it being road raced, any of you getting that surging at high boost part throttle with that turbo?
Thanks for reading,
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Hey Dave, I'm still in for my turbo.. don't hold my order.. Also, I think I know what your issue is.. I think you said you had an uprated actuator on the turbo, and a manual boost controller.. you'll get surge because you have no vaccuum assisting the actuator open the wastegate easier at part throttle, I think you also mentioned you had a TIAL BOV on the car? Thats another reason for it at part throttle.. I had this problem early on with the stock turbo when I was playing with adjustable wastegate actuators and the MBC, especially with BOVs that had a high spring rate and didn't vent partially at part throttle, and the big cams aren't helping any so those part throttle high boost shifts arent venting adequately..
EDIT: I'm not sure the actuator acts on vacuum and boost, I recall this actuator is slightly different than the ones I used to use.
Last edited by MalibuJack; Aug 16, 2005 at 08:54 AM.
Aug 16, 2005, 09:24 AM
#228
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Originally Posted by justchil
So it's 800 if you provide your stock turbo as a core? How much for just the turbo alone? Can I send my turbo AFTER I get the 20g or is it needed before hand? Does it use the stock manifold? What else is required (besides new nuts/bolts/gaskets) for the install?
I think this is the turbo for me! just need to figure out some details
I think this is the turbo for me! just need to figure out some details
Aug 16, 2005, 10:18 AM
#229
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
PLEASE READ THIS IMPORTANT 20G INFORMATION!!!!!!!!!!
As a side note we dyno'd a WR this weekend. As the car was coming up on boost on the dyno I could hear it surging too. That is puzzling as I have only read good things about it being road raced, any of you getting that surging at high boost part throttle with that turbo?
Thanks for reading,
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
As a side note we dyno'd a WR this weekend. As the car was coming up on boost on the dyno I could hear it surging too. That is puzzling as I have only read good things about it being road raced, any of you getting that surging at high boost part throttle with that turbo?
Thanks for reading,
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
I could take it to a tuner to extract more power but whats the fun in that, this is all a learning process and I am having loads of fun doing it.
Aug 16, 2005, 01:13 PM
#231
Originally Posted by dryad001
I have about 13 degrees of timing and back it down to about 6 degrees and peak torque and then the timing blasts up to about 27 degrees till about 7500. Dave if you want me to send you my UTEC map I am more than happy to do so. I feel that my tune is on the very conservative side
Aug 18, 2005, 05:20 AM
#233
It might not just be the way you have it tuned, dryad.
I noticed that when my car had the TME on it combined with a Stage IV kit, 272 cams advanced 2 degrees each and water injection...Not only did that combo spool up by 2800rpm, but it also surged pretty badly when it was coming on boost. I think the nature of a large turbo on a small 2.0L motor combined with mods meant to focus on response more than high rpm horsepower create a situation where the motor simply can't take in that efficient volume of air at partial throttle.
I think the best way is to either drive around it or stick to a turbo that doesn't surge AS badly in that situation.
I noticed that when my car had the TME on it combined with a Stage IV kit, 272 cams advanced 2 degrees each and water injection...Not only did that combo spool up by 2800rpm, but it also surged pretty badly when it was coming on boost. I think the nature of a large turbo on a small 2.0L motor combined with mods meant to focus on response more than high rpm horsepower create a situation where the motor simply can't take in that efficient volume of air at partial throttle.
I think the best way is to either drive around it or stick to a turbo that doesn't surge AS badly in that situation.
Aug 18, 2005, 05:32 AM
#234
The turbo pricing is located earlier in the post. $800 for the 20G, that is with you sending in your core. I can do an exchange but don't want to get started sending out the few cores we have and waiting weeks to get cores back.
The boost control is hooked up with the inlet off the compressor housing and the other side going to the actuator.
The 27 degrees of timing up top on pump gas is SCAREY!! That is a LOT of timing.
The actuator on my car is the high boost actuator and I am running the stiffest spring in the Tial BOV that I could get.
I am sure there are ways to "tune" the surge out. My only concern is that I make sure I let you guys know there is a slight chance it will happen. Personally the car has NEVER done it with me driving it. Like I say, it is a driving style that seemed to cause it.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The boost control is hooked up with the inlet off the compressor housing and the other side going to the actuator.
The 27 degrees of timing up top on pump gas is SCAREY!! That is a LOT of timing.
The actuator on my car is the high boost actuator and I am running the stiffest spring in the Tial BOV that I could get.
I am sure there are ways to "tune" the surge out. My only concern is that I make sure I let you guys know there is a slight chance it will happen. Personally the car has NEVER done it with me driving it. Like I say, it is a driving style that seemed to cause it.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Aug 18, 2005, 06:00 AM
#235
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first hand experience
Would you be able to describe the difference in power and power delivery between the 20g and a TME? What can be expected from 3000 rpm on? This would be very usefull. Thanks,
Sigfrid
Sigfrid
Aug 18, 2005, 06:02 AM
#236
The TME is like getting hit from behind, it is instant and almost "violent" when it hits. The 20G is much more linear. Over 6,000 rpm the 20G makes a lot more power, you can feel it.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
