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20G turbo upgrade from Buschur Racing.

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Old Jul 26, 2005, 06:28 AM
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20G turbo upgrade from Buschur Racing.

Alright guys, it has been a long time coming. Well over a year now and you guys have gotten all the news as things have progressed or haven't.

The original idea on this turbo was to actually make an exact duplicate of the Mitsubishi 20G compressor wheel in reverse scroll. Well I never really got what I wanted, the wheels were always a little or a lot bigger than that. I tested anyway and tried new things and the turbo in the last form I got it did actually gain MPH at the track (2.1+mph) the turbo didn't feel good on the street and had horrible part throttle surge problems. The reason the turbo has been called the 21g from the beginning is it was always larger than the actual 20G turbo I wanted to have built and run on the car.

Last time the turbo went back to the turbo shop I think I said something like, "I am tired of swapping turbos, send me an exact 20G wheel with the same clipping we run on our old DSM turbos and I'll test it, if anything else comes I won't even bolt it on." I am sure I am not the easiest guy to deal with sometimes.

I got the turbo last week (in the correct size, thus the new name of 20g) and had planned to run my RS at the track on race gas, which I never have before, and then switch over to the 20G. Well as luck would have it the time I did take the RS to the track on race gas the performance wasn't there and the next day I found a blown out intercooler coupling on the car. I fixed the coupling and another leak and was ready to go. Friday night I semi-launched the car and just as it made high boost I heard this horrible explosion. Lifted and eased the car home, no boost. Figured I blew a coupling. We get the car in the shop and find that the turbine wheel actually exploded, YES, exploded. I have been letting this turbo hit 30 psi of boost (on the gauge) for a long long time. I guess the excessive shafts speeds have finally taken its toll. I have NEVER seen a failure like this. There are pieces of the wheel actually imbedded in the turbine housing. I will post pictures later.

At this point I needed a turbo, I don't have anymore stock, clipped ti/al turbos to put back in my car. This meant we put the 20G turbo on now.

The turbo got put on right before we closed last night. I drove it home and got on it a few times. The boost was rock steady compared to the stock turbo. No huge spikes no huge drop offs at redline.

On the gauge on the way home it looked like the boost was 25-26 psi all the way to redline in 1-3 gears.

**I need to get side tracked for a minute. The guages do NOT match what the AEM logs say. I had an explanation a while back from someone at AEM, "What are you going to trust a $20 boost gauge or a $100 medical grade map sensor?" That was good enough for me. Recently a customer of ours, thanks Seth, called for the same explanation as I don't think he liked what I passed on to him. He got a real reason. Boost gauges are built to go to -0-. This means on a day when the weather sucks it is going to start reading from -0- no matter what. The AEM map sensor will read actual atmospheric pressure. Normally that would be 14.7, which if it was on the AEM it would -0- when you turned the key on and watch the Engine Load. Now it makes sense. The AEM always reads below -0-, which once you hit boost would read lower than the boost gauge that starts at -0- in the first place. To show how bad the weather was here yesterday the gauge was off 3-4 psi from the AEM log I looked at this morning.

Some other very interesting news. The old DSM's when we ran 16g's on them we could run the stock injectors, which were 450 cc. When we would put a 20G turbo on an old DSM we'd have to upgrade the injectors to 550's. Now I didn't have a wide band o2 sensor back then but I knew the turbo was using more air as the cars got lean and needed more fuel. With the first turbos we have been trying (the 21G's) the AFR's never really got leaner. I kept wondering how this turbo was suppose to be moving more air but the AFR's stayed the same or were slightly richer. Should have known something was wrong then.

THIS 20G wheel is moving more freaking air!! The AFR's on my log this morning are telling me some good things.

I was going to post the logs of stock turbo vs. the new 20G, but it won't do anyone any good unless you have AEM software. There is no way to tell what the lines are on the graph. So I guess I am going to have to just describe it.

Stock turbo.

1st gear peak boost 25.54 psi at 5172 rpm, at 7176 rpm at the boost fell to 20.35,
AFR's were 11.6 to 12.2 in those ranges.

2nd gear peak boost was 23.63 at 5891 rpm, at 6875 rpm boost fell to 21.53, AFR's were 11.5 to 11.8.

3rd gear peak boost was 25.45 at 5387 rpm, at 5861 rpm boost fell to 24.3, AFR's were flat at 11.4:1, but that 3rd gear was very short. This is the only log I have of the car on the stock turbo in 3 gears. I wish I had a better set of pulls but you will get the idea very shortly.

I have a one more pull in here in just 4th gear. Went to WOT for a short time, looked like this:

4th gear peak boost 29.18 psi at 4609 rpm, at 5691 rpm the boost already dropped to 24.54 psi. This is the huge spike I see on the stock turbo. AFR's ranged from 10.4 to 11.4 in that short time.

Alright. The 20G log. On the boost gauge as I say, I was seeing 25-26 psi of boost. Looking a the log it wasn't that high. For those of you that use only a gauge or use your gauge to tune with instead of the AEM EMS you would also believe you had 25-26 psi of boost. All the days of my life tuning DSM's I used the gauge pressure when tuning. Since I have been using the AEM I use the MAP sensor for boost readings and ignore the gauges in the cars.

1st gear boost hit 20.71 psi at 6059 rpm, at 7500 rpm the boost was 20.62 psi. AFR's were between 11.8 and 12.6! Much leaner than the stock turbo.

2nd gear boost hit a high of 21.99 psi at 6578 rpm, at 7477 rpm the boost was 20.71 psi. AFR's were very flat, but lean at 12.3 - 12.4.

3rd gear boost hit a high of 22.44 at 6051 rpm, at 7145 rpm the boost was 21.53 psi. AFR's were once again very flat at 12.4:1.

Other interesting tidbits. The weather here yesterday was rediculous. 96dgrees and 96 percent humidity. As I was on my way back to the shop I saw a storm coming in. Within 10 miles of driving the temps dropped from 96 degrees to 84 degrees.

I left the shop soon after getting there, so I will assume the temps were still around 84 degrees outside, still humid.

Looking at the log of the pull in 1-3rd gears last night the air inlet temps when I started the pull in 1st gear were 84.2 degrees, so just about ambient which would be right. At the end of the pull the temps had only rose to 91.4 degrees. That's only 7 degrees which is very impressive on a day like that with a small turbo putting out fairly high boost pressures. My RS is running our new race FMIC kit on it now.

Thanks for reading, I know I can get VERY VERY long winded but I like to get all the details I can out to you guys.

I cannot wait to run this car at the track!

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Old Jul 26, 2005, 06:28 AM
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Sweet!
Old Jul 26, 2005, 06:35 AM
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damn there is an hour of your day typing... that turbo sounds like it came off an old vr-4.. shattering to peices..
Old Jul 26, 2005, 06:42 AM
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Thanks for the great write-up...
Old Jul 26, 2005, 06:44 AM
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When are you going to dyno this turbo? Awesome info
Old Jul 26, 2005, 06:54 AM
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Another potentially promising upgrade, any ideas on when testing may be done on this and it'll be ready for sale?
Old Jul 26, 2005, 07:05 AM
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Sounds great.
Old Jul 26, 2005, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Alright guys, it has been a long time coming. Well over a year now and you guys have gotten all the news as things have progressed or haven't.

The original idea on this turbo was to actually make an exact duplicate of the Mitsubishi 20G compressor wheel in reverse scroll. Well I never really got what I wanted, the wheels were always a little or a lot bigger than that. I tested anyway and tried new things and the turbo in the last form I got it did actually gain MPH at the track (2.1+mph) the turbo didn't feel good on the street and had horrible part throttle surge problems. The reason the turbo has been called the 21g from the beginning is it was always larger than the actual 20G turbo I wanted to have built and run on the car.

Last time the turbo went back to the turbo shop I think I said something like, "I am tired of swapping turbos, send me an exact 20G wheel with the same clipping we run on our old DSM turbos and I'll test it, if anything else comes I won't even bolt it on." I am sure I am not the easiest guy to deal with sometimes.

I got the turbo last week (in the correct size, thus the new name of 20g) and had planned to run my RS at the track on race gas, which I never have before, and then switch over to the 20G. Well as luck would have it the time I did take the RS to the track on race gas the performance wasn't there and the next day I found a blown out intercooler coupling on the car. I fixed the coupling and another leak and was ready to go. Friday night I semi-launched the car and just as it made high boost I heard this horrible explosion. Lifted and eased the car home, no boost. Figured I blew a coupling. We get the car in the shop and find that the turbine wheel actually exploded, YES, exploded. I have been letting this turbo hit 30 psi of boost (on the gauge) for a long long time. I guess the excessive shafts speeds have finally taken its toll. I have NEVER seen a failure like this. There are pieces of the wheel actually imbedded in the turbine housing. I will post pictures later.

At this point I needed a turbo, I don't have anymore stock, clipped ti/al turbos to put back in my car. This meant we put the 20G turbo on now.

The turbo got put on right before we closed last night. I drove it home and got on it a few times. The boost was rock steady compared to the stock turbo. No huge spikes no huge drop offs at redline.

On the gauge on the way home it looked like the boost was 25-26 psi all the way to redline in 1-3 gears.

**I need to get side tracked for a minute. The guages do NOT match what the AEM logs say. I had an explanation a while back from someone at AEM, "What are you going to trust a $20 boost gauge or a $100 medical grade map sensor?" That was good enough for me. Recently a customer of ours, thanks Seth, called for the same explanation as I don't think he liked what I passed on to him. He got a real reason. Boost gauges are built to go to -0-. This means on a day when the weather sucks it is going to start reading from -0- no matter what. The AEM map sensor will read actual atmospheric pressure. Normally that would be 14.7, which if it was on the AEM it would -0- when you turned the key on and watch the Engine Load. Now it makes sense. The AEM always reads below -0-, which once you hit boost would read lower than the boost gauge that starts at -0- in the first place. To show how bad the weather was here yesterday the gauge was off 3-4 psi from the AEM log I looked at this morning.

Some other very interesting news. The old DSM's when we ran 16g's on them we could run the stock injectors, which were 450 cc. When we would put a 20G turbo on an old DSM we'd have to upgrade the injectors to 550's. Now I didn't have a wide band o2 sensor back then but I knew the turbo was using more air as the cars got lean and needed more fuel. With the first turbos we have been trying (the 21G's) the AFR's never really got leaner. I kept wondering how this turbo was suppose to be moving more air but the AFR's stayed the same or were slightly richer. Should have known something was wrong then.

THIS 20G wheel is moving more freaking air!! The AFR's on my log this morning are telling me some good things.

I was going to post the logs of stock turbo vs. the new 20G, but it won't do anyone any good unless you have AEM software. There is no way to tell what the lines are on the graph. So I guess I am going to have to just describe it.

Stock turbo.

1st gear peak boost 25.54 psi at 5172 rpm, at 7176 rpm at the boost fell to 20.35,
AFR's were 11.6 to 12.2 in those ranges.

2nd gear peak boost was 23.63 at 5891 rpm, at 6875 rpm boost fell to 21.53, AFR's were 11.5 to 11.8.

3rd gear peak boost was 25.45 at 5387 rpm, at 5861 rpm boost fell to 24.3, AFR's were flat at 11.4:1, but that 3rd gear was very short. This is the only log I have of the car on the stock turbo in 3 gears. I wish I had a better set of pulls but you will get the idea very shortly.

I have a one more pull in here in just 4th gear. Went to WOT for a short time, looked like this:

4th gear peak boost 29.18 psi at 4609 rpm, at 5691 rpm the boost already dropped to 24.54 psi. This is the huge spike I see on the stock turbo. AFR's ranged from 10.4 to 11.4 in that short time.

Alright. The 20G log. On the boost gauge as I say, I was seeing 25-26 psi of boost. Looking a the log it wasn't that high. For those of you that use only a gauge or use your gauge to tune with instead of the AEM EMS you would also believe you had 25-26 psi of boost. All the days of my life tuning DSM's I used the gauge pressure when tuning. Since I have been using the AEM I use the MAP sensor for boost readings and ignore the gauges in the cars.

1st gear boost hit 20.71 psi at 6059 rpm, at 7500 rpm the boost was 20.62 psi. AFR's were between 11.8 and 12.6! Much leaner than the stock turbo.

2nd gear boost hit a high of 21.99 psi at 6578 rpm, at 7477 rpm the boost was 20.71 psi. AFR's were very flat, but lean at 12.3 - 12.4.

3rd gear boost hit a high of 22.44 at 6051 rpm, at 7145 rpm the boost was 21.53 psi. AFR's were once again very flat at 12.4:1.

Other interesting tidbits. The weather here yesterday was rediculous. 96dgrees and 96 percent humidity. As I was on my way back to the shop I saw a storm coming in. Within 10 miles of driving the temps dropped from 96 degrees to 84 degrees.

I left the shop soon after getting there, so I will assume the temps were still around 84 degrees outside, still humid.

Looking at the log of the pull in 1-3rd gears last night the air inlet temps when I started the pull in 1st gear were 84.2 degrees, so just about ambient which would be right. At the end of the pull the temps had only rose to 91.4 degrees. That's only 7 degrees which is very impressive on a day like that with a small turbo putting out fairly high boost pressures. My RS is running our new race FMIC kit on it now.

Thanks for reading, I know I can get VERY VERY long winded but I like to get all the details I can out to you guys.

I cannot wait to run this car at the track!

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Dave,

Post the log. I have an AEM and want to see this for myself. I have a TME and at 5k i am only hitting 20 psi of boost. If this thing holds 25 psi at 5k i put me in line to buy.
Old Jul 26, 2005, 07:08 AM
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Anyone can download the AEM EMS software from the main AEM web site www.aempower.com for free and then they will be able to view your logs. Please post them up

Keith
Old Jul 26, 2005, 07:10 AM
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interesting results.

cant wait to see more.
Old Jul 26, 2005, 07:19 AM
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I to would love to see the datalogs. Honestly, Im more interested to see the air temp rise vs boost pressure to compare with my logs with stock intercooler info though.

In any event, strap that RS down ASAP and give Evom what it needs, pumpgas #'s with a comparable tune to match up agaist your previous dyno info for the stock turbo.
Old Jul 26, 2005, 07:22 AM
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Interesting indeed, i'll stay tuned Buschur owns.
Old Jul 26, 2005, 07:30 AM
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go dave!
Old Jul 26, 2005, 07:33 AM
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Great news Dave, we have all been patiently waiting for this turbo!!! I haven't been following for a minute, did you get your dyno in yet? Can't wait to see the numbers!
Old Jul 26, 2005, 08:18 AM
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any idea of a price on this? Will it follow the same pricing as the 21G was going to?


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