So this is Launch control/NLS?
Aug 3, 2005 | 09:51 PM
#46
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by Jeff_Jeske
The above is correct!
The LC/NLTS is currently a MAP but eventually will just be a setting in the software. Once you turn it on its on.....and you wont notice it unless you rest your foot on the clutch pedal while you drive. Its somewhat idiot proof because you also need to be at +X amount of throttle position. Trust me LC/NLTS is practically required for a turbo car....you will never be able to go back. Though it does take a little getting used to .....not letting off that is.
The LC/NLTS is currently a MAP but eventually will just be a setting in the software. Once you turn it on its on.....and you wont notice it unless you rest your foot on the clutch pedal while you drive. Its somewhat idiot proof because you also need to be at +X amount of throttle position. Trust me LC/NLTS is practically required for a turbo car....you will never be able to go back. Though it does take a little getting used to .....not letting off that is.
Aug 3, 2005 | 10:41 PM
#47
i saw the vid. that looks like it'll help a lot on the 1/4 mile runs as well as auto-x.
is that ok for it to not go into vac during shifting? doesn't that cause compression surge to have the turbo spinning like that?
is that ok for it to not go into vac during shifting? doesn't that cause compression surge to have the turbo spinning like that?
Aug 4, 2005 | 05:15 AM
#48
Originally Posted by plokivos
i saw the vid. that looks like it'll help a lot on the 1/4 mile runs as well as auto-x.
is that ok for it to not go into vac during shifting? doesn't that cause compression surge to have the turbo spinning like that?
is that ok for it to not go into vac during shifting? doesn't that cause compression surge to have the turbo spinning like that?
kinda feels like it would be hard on the drivetrain or the clutch one, but it is very kool last night to see it only drop to 10/11 psi in between gears.
Aug 4, 2005 | 05:57 AM
#49
Originally Posted by Jeff_Jeske
The above is correct!
The LC/NLTS is currently a MAP but eventually will just be a setting in the software. Once you turn it on its on.....and you wont notice it unless you rest your foot on the clutch pedal while you drive. Its somewhat idiot proof because you also need to be at +X amount of throttle position. Trust me LC/NLTS is practically required for a turbo car....you will never be able to go back. Though it does take a little getting used to .....not letting off that is.
The LC/NLTS is currently a MAP but eventually will just be a setting in the software. Once you turn it on its on.....and you wont notice it unless you rest your foot on the clutch pedal while you drive. Its somewhat idiot proof because you also need to be at +X amount of throttle position. Trust me LC/NLTS is practically required for a turbo car....you will never be able to go back. Though it does take a little getting used to .....not letting off that is.
I also forgot several times to keep my right foot on the floor through shifts...and if you bog the launch...you can't clutch out of it....kinda hard to explain...but takes some getting used to none the less.
Aug 4, 2005 | 08:43 AM
#50
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by plokivos
i saw the vid. that looks like it'll help a lot on the 1/4 mile runs as well as auto-x.
is that ok for it to not go into vac during shifting? doesn't that cause compression surge to have the turbo spinning like that?
is that ok for it to not go into vac during shifting? doesn't that cause compression surge to have the turbo spinning like that?
Shiv
Aug 4, 2005 | 08:43 AM
#51
Originally Posted by gsujeff55
OMG, you aren't kidding bro. I have always had a habit of resting my foot on the clutch...NO MORE. that damn thing is sensative.....i thought something i wired up was wrong because i punched it in 3rd gear and it hit fuel cut at 6k. but, i had the clutch pedal depressed about 1/8th of an inch and it triggered the fuel cut.
I also forgot several times to keep my right foot on the floor through shifts...and if you bog the launch...you can't clutch out of it....kinda hard to explain...but takes some getting used to none the less.
I also forgot several times to keep my right foot on the floor through shifts...and if you bog the launch...you can't clutch out of it....kinda hard to explain...but takes some getting used to none the less.
I know it sounds like its hard on the drivetrain but once you use it you will see that its actually not bad at all. It still drops the RPMs to about where the next gear will pick up.....all its really adding is some addition boost. Honestly I think it feels better than a normal shift because alot of the shock load and jerking is removed....its just a clean crisp shift with a punch.
Aug 4, 2005 | 08:46 AM
#52
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From: Danville/Blackhawk, California
Originally Posted by 93civEJ1
kinda feels like it would be hard on the drivetrain or the clutch one, but it is very kool last night to see it only drop to 10/11 psi in between gears.
Shiv
Aug 4, 2005 | 04:21 PM
#54
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Nope. Quite the opposite, in fact. Compressor surge occurs when the turbo is spinning hard (under boost) and the throttle is snapped closed. In this case, that big air mass that was moved by the turbo hits the closed throttle body and bounces back towards the blades of the turbo, forcing them to slow down or even change direction (which is quite brutal on a turbo). That's by BOVs exist in the first place as they vent this nasty air mass to atmosphere or inlet tube before hits the turbo. With NLS, the throttle never closes so surge never happens.
Shiv
Shiv
There is a small degree of surge as well, anytime engine speed is dropped in a short time with throttle held open. This is seen in automatic as well as sequential manual cars. It may not show up much or at all on gauges because of the shortness of the spike along with the damped needle. It shows up in datalogs though.
A real life example of this is in champ cars where the sanctioning body mandated and checked pop off valves, placed in intake plenum, break open above a set pressure. It opened quickly, but closed slowly to make certain that a harsh enough penalty was suffered by anyone who tried to cross over the threshold. An additional pre-plenum throttle body ahead of the standard ITBs was employed and had a controller to close the pre-plenum throttle under shifting when required in order to prevent the pressure spike from being seen by the pop-off valve and venting pressure. This way they kept max. allowable pressure as much of the time as possible.
The larger the gap in gears, the larger the ratio in engine displacement vs the flow capability of the turbo, the quicker a shift is completed - the larger the degree of surge.
However this surge under "open-throttle-shift" will always be much less violent than the standard closed-throttle shift since volumetric demand goes from max or near max, to zero. In open throttle shifting volumetric demand drops somewhat, but never to anywhere close to zero.
Regards
Last edited by Shaun@SG; Aug 5, 2005 at 10:53 AM.
Aug 10, 2005 | 10:56 AM
#56
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Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Lima - Peru
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu
Hi guys,
I had an idea this morning on how to incorporate a launch control and no-lift shift feature in the XEDE. With the new SMART system, one can pretty much design any table he wants with whatever X, Y and Z variable he can think off. So this time, we fed the factory clutch switch into an unused XEDE input. Then we set up a simple table with the Clutch switch as the Y axis, RPM as the X axis and MAFout as the Z variable. With the Launch Control/NLS limit set to 6600RPM, the table looks like this:
And with a simple Stg 1+ running 91oct, a blast quick blast up 1st through 4th gears looks like this:
http://www.vishnutuning.com/movie/boosto.mov
This was with me driving Dustin's car so I shifted gently with full clutch disengagements between gears. Even still, boost easily built 7psi right before the easy, no-chirp launch and never dropped below 9psi between shifts and hit hard and instantly once the clutch was let out again.
With our DSM drag racing buddy slamming through the gears earlier today, the boost would only fall to 17psi between shifts!
The secondary rev limit is triggered by the first clutch switch (the one that is tripped once the clutch is depressed an inch or so-- not the one that requires the clutch pedal to be pushed in all the way). So, in effect, you can activate the limiter by just barely touching the pedal. Also nice is that with the limiter set to 6500rpm, you can drive around all day like that and never notice it during normal driving (rev matching, double-clutching, heel/toe, etc,.) It's just there when you want to throw down
This user-settable feature is now available in all v3 XEDE maps, SMART or otherwise.
Next up: Anti Lag Vrooom... BANG BANG BANG BANG
Cheers,
Shiv
I had an idea this morning on how to incorporate a launch control and no-lift shift feature in the XEDE. With the new SMART system, one can pretty much design any table he wants with whatever X, Y and Z variable he can think off. So this time, we fed the factory clutch switch into an unused XEDE input. Then we set up a simple table with the Clutch switch as the Y axis, RPM as the X axis and MAFout as the Z variable. With the Launch Control/NLS limit set to 6600RPM, the table looks like this:
And with a simple Stg 1+ running 91oct, a blast quick blast up 1st through 4th gears looks like this:
http://www.vishnutuning.com/movie/boosto.mov
This was with me driving Dustin's car so I shifted gently with full clutch disengagements between gears. Even still, boost easily built 7psi right before the easy, no-chirp launch and never dropped below 9psi between shifts and hit hard and instantly once the clutch was let out again.
With our DSM drag racing buddy slamming through the gears earlier today, the boost would only fall to 17psi between shifts!
The secondary rev limit is triggered by the first clutch switch (the one that is tripped once the clutch is depressed an inch or so-- not the one that requires the clutch pedal to be pushed in all the way). So, in effect, you can activate the limiter by just barely touching the pedal. Also nice is that with the limiter set to 6500rpm, you can drive around all day like that and never notice it during normal driving (rev matching, double-clutching, heel/toe, etc,.) It's just there when you want to throw down
This user-settable feature is now available in all v3 XEDE maps, SMART or otherwise.
Next up: Anti Lag Vrooom... BANG BANG BANG BANG
Cheers,
Shiv
When MAFout = -100% does the ignition and fueling completely cut ?
Carlos
Aug 11, 2005 | 05:27 AM
#58
just the fuel is completely cut....not the ignition.
he is working on an anti-lag system that retards ignition instead of fuel.....so there are still cylinder explosions and FIREBALLS!!!!!!!!!!!
he is working on an anti-lag system that retards ignition instead of fuel.....so there are still cylinder explosions and FIREBALLS!!!!!!!!!!!
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