RyanM

iTrader: (1)

I've been searching the forums now for several days reading about all the different combinations, recommendations, pontifications, along with usual pure make-believe/insanity.

I've read the thread about what each cam's spec's are.

I've read the 280s are the only way to go threads.

From what I see, it looks like the community as a whole has the most experience dealing with the HKS 272/272 setups and that sounds like it works running on an otherwise stock motor.

What I don't see are people who have used some of the cams from other manufacturer's out there posting consistently valuable information about the setups along with what else they've done to make it work.

I would think that the Jun or Tomei cams would out-perform the HKS provided the valve train was upgraded and adjustable cam gears were used. The thread with the Jun cam's requiring AEM EMS is comedy.

I'm heavily leaning towards Jun 272's and Jun valve train mainly because theoretically, it looks to be a higher performance setup given the increased lift.

Is there a sweet spot that HKS is just hitting and the Jun/Tomei are outside that spec? I don't want to end up with a franken-beast, and HKS272s seem to be the most heavily used. Before I drink that Kool-aid, I'm looking for some added input.

I guess my question boils down to HKS272 (or 280s) vs the Jun 272s all coupled to an upgraded valve train from people who've gone down those roads.

Eventually I'll strap a BR 20G to this setup as well and have a mid 400WHP car with an excellent across the board power band.

4-BNGR

iTrader: (3)

The amount of cabbage in your wallet usually dictates one's decision. As for JUN v/s HKS - Jun Procams require valvetrain upgrade; Poncams don't. Jun's lift is higher (so more power on the Procams). HKS don't require valvetrain work. However, I'd go with GSC's rather than HKS unless you've got your heart set on the 280' duration cams...

RyanM

iTrader: (1)

What will I be losing going for the Jun's? Is the aggressive lift going to focus my power on the top end because its drawing out the max RPM? Or is it going to give me more power across the board as an all around improvement?

I don't want to end up with an S2000

RyanM

iTrader: (1)

From the Jun site
http://www.junauto.co.jp/products/cy...t-4g63.html?en


HIGH LIFT CAMSHAFT - 4G63
Camshaft for 4G63

♦ High Lift Camshafts for 4G63 / Lash type

Spec (unit: mm)
Part #
early model
Part #
middle model
Part #
latest model Remarks

Duration
Lift
IN 66 (264) 10.5 1004M-M001 1004M-M011 1004M-M041 Special valve spring required.
EX 1004M-M101 1004M-M111 1004M-M141
IN 68 (272) 10.8 1004M-M002 1004M-M012 1004M-M042
EX 1004M-M102 1004M-M112 1004M-M142
* The amout of lifts shows the cam lift.
* This camshafts must use strengthened valve springs.
* We prepare the Camshaft Kit which contains valve springs and valve retainers.

♦ Camshaft Kit for 4G63 / Lash type

Stage # Including parts
Part #
Remarks

INT cam
EXH cam
Valve S/P
Retainers
Stage 1 You can choose profile Ο n/a 1033M-M003
Stage 2 You can choose profile Ο Type 1 1033M-M004
Stage 2R You can choose profile Ο Type 2 1033M-M008
Option A set of cam slide sprockets (2 pc.) 1033M-M701
* You can choose from the profile which is placed in this page. You cannot choose the custom made camshaft.
* We will choose the product which can be used for the profile which you chose, when enclosing the valve springs and valve retainers of each stage.
* Option (cam slide sprocket) is a special price in case you purchase together with a camshaft kit. You cannot buy it alone.


♦ High Lift Camshafts for 4G63 / Solid type

Specifications (unit: mm)
Part #
early model
Part #
middle model
Part #
latest model Remarks

Duration
Lift
VC
IN 66 (264) 10.5 0.15 1004M-M051 1004M-M061 1004M-M071 Special valve spring required.
EX 0.15 1004M-M151 1004M-M161 1004M-M171
IN 68 (272) 10.8 0.15 1004M-M052 1004M-M062 1004M-M072
EX 0.15 1004M-M151 1004M-M161 1004M-M171
VC = Valve Clearance (cool conditions)
* The amout of lifts shows the cam lift.
* When you use this camshafts, you need processing which changes a lash pivot into a solid pivot.
* This camshafts must use strengthened valve springs.
* We prepare the Camshaft Kit which contains valve springs and valve retainers.

♦ Camshaft Kit for 4G63 / Solid type

Stage # Including parts
Part #
Remarks

INT cam
EXH cam
Valve S/P
Retainers
Stage 1 You can choose profile Ο n/a 1033M-M006
Stage 2 You can choose profile Ο Type 1 1033M-M007
Stage 2R You can choose profile Ο Type 2 1033M-M009
Option A set of cam slide sprockets (2 pc.) 1033M-M701
* You can choose from the profile which is placed in this page. You cannot choose the custom made camshaft.
* We will choose the product which can be used for the profile which you chose, when enclosing the valve springs and valve retainers of each stage.
* Option (cam slide sprocket) is a special price in case you purchase together with a camshaft kit. You cannot buy it alone.

HOT NEWS|PRODUCTS|PROCESSING|SHOW ROOM|CONTACT US ©1997-2005 Tanaka Industrial Co., Ltd.

RyanM

iTrader: (1)

What is the difference between Lash and solid that they are talking about here?

RyanM

iTrader: (1)

I found the link about Jun cams requiring stand alone, but I don't agree...

http://www.realfast.com.sg/User%20Re...III%20cams.htm

If the pulse duration was the issue, this would be a problem on any car running aftermarket cams... Same with his argument about stock redline. I also don't understand his comment about supplying sufficient fueling, unless thats a limitation of this particular engine (B16/B18). I had a B18C5 in a Del Sol and I don't see why an SAFC wouldn't be able to compensate provided I had adequate fuel from the pump, rail, injectors. And if I didn't, thats easy enough to address without going to a stand alone fuel management system.

RyanM

iTrader: (1)

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/buy/Jun

Good write-up for Jun

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (185)

I hear what you are saying...there is TONS of misinformation/guessing that happens.

there are lash type lifters and solid lifter...a solid lifter has lots more rpm potential, but other parts are required to get them operational.

Most poeople use HKS because they are readily available and don't require springs. That being said, they are a relatively mild cam in the overal scheme of things. The Tomei Procam grinds (of which there are 3) and the JUN's are much more exotic setups

Any technical questions you have about the JUN or Tomei, let me know - we are direct with both firms, and I talk to each nearly every night

As far as your powerband, to net a broad power band, you want a cam with duration on the lower end of the scale typically. However, it is very important that the cam grind be matched to the design of your manifold and your turbo selection.

4bangr - JUN does not offer Pon/Pro Cams -that is Tomei. Tomei offers 1 Poncam setup (260 degrees diration and 10.7mm lift on the intake side, and 260 degrees duration and 10.2mm lift on the exhaust side), and 3 Procam grinds (260, 270 or 280 degrees of duration on the intake and exhaust cam, but steps you up to 11.50mm of lift on both the intake and exhaust cam. Because of the amount of lift, springs are mandatory (Tomei offers theirs, which are nice but expensive - Supterch and Ferrea both offer more affordable setups)

Adam

RyanM

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the feedback Adam. I just got off the phone with Gruppe-S, they indicated that the Jun setup is incredible, but that it takes a great deal of time to get the parts from Japan. He is going to get back with me on prices/deliverydates for the full Jun setup. I'm not sure if he wants me to post the pricing so I'll avoid doing that. But the wait time is definitely a factor, if it takes several months I'll be more inclined to take the HKS plunge.

I've heard good and bad things about Tomei, it sounded like their stroker kit had a problem breaking cranks. I like their cam profiles and I'm willing to go the extra mile and get the full setup but I'm hesitant on their product due to some of the write ups on that stroker kit.

I want to go 20G or 3071R turbo. I had a 3037 that I couldn't stand due to lag. I can't imagine a GT30 or 35. Its my daily driver and from my house to work is 12 miles of s-curves along a lake so is kinda a mini-version of heaven for me. To keep my heaven a happy place boost must come early.

Z1 Performance

iTrader: (185)

well, not for nothing but it really does not take that much time to get - we have JUN stuff sent from JUN Japan direct to customers all the time

As for Tomei's motors, I have never heard of that - but then again I don't even know anyone who went and bought their kit either. So far, we have only sold 1 Tomei motor, and it was a complete Genesis Evo motor, so it was assembled by Tomei.

If it were my car, with a 3071, I'd go either 260 or 270 Procam or the Jun 272 - but the JUN's with the solid lifter are best suited to a fully built head, with a bottom end that can take advantage of the added revs

JustDSM

iTrader: (28)

I initially bought the JUN's and after waiting three months, I cancled my order and just went with HKS bumpsticks...

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

Just be very careful about how aggressive you go with your cams, if your goal is to eliminate turbo lag. I currently have a 3071 with HKS 280s (@0/0) and it is not spooling the way I expected it to and we (AMS and I) are in the process of figuring out if the cams are responsible or if its a bum turbo.

Having said that, Ted B seemed to get Excellent results with his setup (TME, HKS 280s set to +2/0) as far as early spool, mad early torque goes. Personally I don't think I will want to run my 280s 2 degrees advanced, but that is only because I have a built 2.0 that I plan on revving to 9K,which may also ultimately dictate cam settings that sacrifice some spool for better power up top.

l8r)

Erik@MIL.SPEC

iTrader: (94)

The 280s that were on the other WR car at the Vishnu SoCal dyno day seemed to experience slower spool up too.

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

How much slower? Was anyone able to quantify the difference? I'm spooling 500rpms later than I should be, which seems excessive with the cams running at 0/0.

l8r)

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Time the 280s cams for quick spool, and quick spool is what you get (with lots of midrange torque).