OE WR actuator preload... heavy spring actuator install.
Aug 23, 2005, 12:04 AM
#1
OE WR actuator preload... heavy spring actuator install.
First and foremost, if you have a WR turbo installed, this thread is for you. If you don't, and do not have anything intelligent to post, don't wine when your post is edited, deleted, censored, or whatever other manner in which you think your freedom of speech is being disposed of... you have public access to a privately owned forum. Live with it...
Before we get too far, I've still not made it back to the dyno (since installing the WR) I might get it back on a dyno at the Turbo Trix Dyno day in Dallas, TX Oct 15th if time allows. I just needed to “clear the air on that one”. The other thing that needs to be clear is that I did not come to the rescue of the WR in other threads because it simply does not need rescuing (I’ve said it more than once, but if you really want to see what a properly setup WR can do, go to the Competition Motor Sports forums). I got as good as OE or better boost response from the get go, and didn’t have any reason to attempt to run higher than 23 psi on my PUMP GAS EATING STREET CAR. The car had not been over 23psi until today…
Let me first say that in my experience, most of the "problems" with the WR not holding higher boost and/or “slow spool up” has been directly linked to improper wg (wastegate) preload, and/or the use of "bleed type" boost control. As to the latter, I use this type boost control myself (Xede with higher boost bleed pill), but have not experienced the same issues that others have claimed (as I’d posted in my first experiences with the turbo). If you own a WR, and have further question about using this method of boost control with the WR, call FP directly.
As to the wg actuators... Whoever you get to install your turbo should have checked wg tension prior to install (I actually have forgotten the OE spec at this late hour). I've seen my fair share of WR's/TME turbos with a bent wg actuator nipple. How would you suppose that happens? It takes a hit, bending the nipple in. Now it is a soft metal, and it may be bent right back into position with no ill effects. However you have to be wary, and check to see if the actual tension has been effected by this hit. If not, your wg “flapper” may not be sealing, causing a few issues, lower boost being one of them.
I had checked my OE wg tension (on the WR) and tightened it one of the several times the car was apart prior… not knowing that it was such an issue per se’. I guess I’d inadvertently fixed my problem before it was initially tuned, and I would have known there even was a “problem”. Boost always built very quickly, and tapered little.
This brings us up to today. I’ve had the Forced Performance optional heavy spring wg actuator sitting around to test for them. I just hadn’t had the time to put it in. The install is straight forward, requiring the removal of the radiator (for clearance), and O2 housing heat shield (I left the O2 sensor in, and just pushed the loose shield a side). You remove the boost lines from the actuator, the pin/C clip from the actuator arm/flapper arm, and the 2 bolts holding the actuator to the turbo. Installation of the new piece is the reverse, less the adjustment. I’ll not get into what the spec is, until FP decides what they want to publish. It is less measured preload length than OE, but more hefty, due to the higher rate spring.
Now to the incomplete results ... I installed the heavy actuator with a boost line running directly from the turbo discharge pipe to the wg actuator. This allows a quick test of boost at spring tension alone. I’d not done this with the OE one, as I’d not thought to do this test prior to talking to FP in the middle of the install. (Others have posted what psi the OE wg spring allows). In this configuration, with the FP actuator with preload to spec, the peak hold meter read 1.24 bar (17.98 psi) with the a/c off and 1.32 bar (19.14 psi) with the extra load of the a/c compressor on. This was +/- about .03 bar repeatedly. (I added the a/c part because it seems to have more effect running on spring tension alone)
(Prior to today, I'd had the OE wg actuator holding 1.58 bar or 23psi with the Xede)
Mitsuorder (thanks again) then reinstalled the boost line from the OE solenoid… with no other changes, I went back out for a run. A third gear pull from about 1800rpm resulted in 1.58 bar (22.91 psi) just passed 3500rpm blasting to 1.89 bar (27.4 psi) before I could quickly let off. Repeating the runs resulted in what appeared to be identical results. On a couple of these runs I only let off to a little over half to two thirds throttle in which it easily maintained 1.8 bar (26.3 psi). I believe there was plenty more in it... However, the car is only road tuned to 23 psi at low 11 AFRs, so I felt I’d already used up my luck at this point. This proves nothing, but gives some good indicators that the turbo will HOLD higher boost than many have suggested. With my adjusted OE actuator, I’d already gotten more consistent results than many running the WR’s. The heavy spring actuator steps it up a good bit from there. Those who need hard numbers will have to wait for your spec sheet until after I get back to the dyno with a little race gas, or someone else, properly adjusted, makes a post of their own. You can crank down an OE actuator and hold more boost on the OE or WR turbos… however, when you do this, you limit the range of motion of the flapper door and can induce a whole other subject (set of issues).
I know this is pretty inconclusive data to say the least... however; I can't help but believe there are a lot of people running around out there with problems that have to do with setup. I also believe that there are people who are going to need the heavy spring actuator to properly run the boost they want to on this turbo. I'd say that adjusting the OE actuator properly would get you nice pump gas performance if you don't already have it. I feel safe in saying that the heavy spring actuator will get nicer still pump gas response, and you "high boost" race gas junkies your fix too.
Read this with a grain of salt as it's late, and I'm tired as hell...
Before we get too far, I've still not made it back to the dyno (since installing the WR) I might get it back on a dyno at the Turbo Trix Dyno day in Dallas, TX Oct 15th if time allows. I just needed to “clear the air on that one”. The other thing that needs to be clear is that I did not come to the rescue of the WR in other threads because it simply does not need rescuing (I’ve said it more than once, but if you really want to see what a properly setup WR can do, go to the Competition Motor Sports forums). I got as good as OE or better boost response from the get go, and didn’t have any reason to attempt to run higher than 23 psi on my PUMP GAS EATING STREET CAR. The car had not been over 23psi until today…
Let me first say that in my experience, most of the "problems" with the WR not holding higher boost and/or “slow spool up” has been directly linked to improper wg (wastegate) preload, and/or the use of "bleed type" boost control. As to the latter, I use this type boost control myself (Xede with higher boost bleed pill), but have not experienced the same issues that others have claimed (as I’d posted in my first experiences with the turbo). If you own a WR, and have further question about using this method of boost control with the WR, call FP directly.
As to the wg actuators... Whoever you get to install your turbo should have checked wg tension prior to install (I actually have forgotten the OE spec at this late hour). I've seen my fair share of WR's/TME turbos with a bent wg actuator nipple. How would you suppose that happens? It takes a hit, bending the nipple in. Now it is a soft metal, and it may be bent right back into position with no ill effects. However you have to be wary, and check to see if the actual tension has been effected by this hit. If not, your wg “flapper” may not be sealing, causing a few issues, lower boost being one of them.
I had checked my OE wg tension (on the WR) and tightened it one of the several times the car was apart prior… not knowing that it was such an issue per se’. I guess I’d inadvertently fixed my problem before it was initially tuned, and I would have known there even was a “problem”. Boost always built very quickly, and tapered little.
This brings us up to today. I’ve had the Forced Performance optional heavy spring wg actuator sitting around to test for them. I just hadn’t had the time to put it in. The install is straight forward, requiring the removal of the radiator (for clearance), and O2 housing heat shield (I left the O2 sensor in, and just pushed the loose shield a side). You remove the boost lines from the actuator, the pin/C clip from the actuator arm/flapper arm, and the 2 bolts holding the actuator to the turbo. Installation of the new piece is the reverse, less the adjustment. I’ll not get into what the spec is, until FP decides what they want to publish. It is less measured preload length than OE, but more hefty, due to the higher rate spring.
Now to the incomplete results ... I installed the heavy actuator with a boost line running directly from the turbo discharge pipe to the wg actuator. This allows a quick test of boost at spring tension alone. I’d not done this with the OE one, as I’d not thought to do this test prior to talking to FP in the middle of the install. (Others have posted what psi the OE wg spring allows). In this configuration, with the FP actuator with preload to spec, the peak hold meter read 1.24 bar (17.98 psi) with the a/c off and 1.32 bar (19.14 psi) with the extra load of the a/c compressor on. This was +/- about .03 bar repeatedly. (I added the a/c part because it seems to have more effect running on spring tension alone)
(Prior to today, I'd had the OE wg actuator holding 1.58 bar or 23psi with the Xede)
Mitsuorder (thanks again) then reinstalled the boost line from the OE solenoid… with no other changes, I went back out for a run. A third gear pull from about 1800rpm resulted in 1.58 bar (22.91 psi) just passed 3500rpm blasting to 1.89 bar (27.4 psi) before I could quickly let off. Repeating the runs resulted in what appeared to be identical results. On a couple of these runs I only let off to a little over half to two thirds throttle in which it easily maintained 1.8 bar (26.3 psi). I believe there was plenty more in it... However, the car is only road tuned to 23 psi at low 11 AFRs, so I felt I’d already used up my luck at this point. This proves nothing, but gives some good indicators that the turbo will HOLD higher boost than many have suggested. With my adjusted OE actuator, I’d already gotten more consistent results than many running the WR’s. The heavy spring actuator steps it up a good bit from there. Those who need hard numbers will have to wait for your spec sheet until after I get back to the dyno with a little race gas, or someone else, properly adjusted, makes a post of their own. You can crank down an OE actuator and hold more boost on the OE or WR turbos… however, when you do this, you limit the range of motion of the flapper door and can induce a whole other subject (set of issues).
I know this is pretty inconclusive data to say the least... however; I can't help but believe there are a lot of people running around out there with problems that have to do with setup. I also believe that there are people who are going to need the heavy spring actuator to properly run the boost they want to on this turbo. I'd say that adjusting the OE actuator properly would get you nice pump gas performance if you don't already have it. I feel safe in saying that the heavy spring actuator will get nicer still pump gas response, and you "high boost" race gas junkies your fix too.
Read this with a grain of salt as it's late, and I'm tired as hell...
Last edited by Zeus; Aug 23, 2005 at 07:45 AM.
Aug 23, 2005, 07:25 AM
#2
Nice write up Zeus. I just got my wr back from FP and Robert was checking all the tolerances on the turbo. Its back on my car now (haven't run it yet) but am wondering if i have the upgraded actuator. Is there a way to visually tell the diff. btwn the two. I am waiting to hear back rom FP to make sure of which one i have - as i am hoping i have the higher psi unit.
So you are running the stock b/c sol. I just finished up the install of the gm sol. and am currently installing the AEM and meth. as well. I think i started too many projects at once lol.
thanks
So you are running the stock b/c sol. I just finished up the install of the gm sol. and am currently installing the AEM and meth. as well. I think i started too many projects at once lol.
thanks
Last edited by PPI; Aug 23, 2005 at 07:27 AM.
Aug 23, 2005, 07:43 AM
#3
Sorry about the post guys... looking at it after some rest seems as if I were half drunk and rambling. The point is still there though.
The heavy spring actuator is bolted to its mounting bracket... not pressed on as is the OE.
The heavy spring actuator is bolted to its mounting bracket... not pressed on as is the OE.
Aug 26, 2005, 09:42 PM
#7
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FP sent mine also last week but i havent had a chance to install it yet so im like a kid waiting for christmas day 
so zeus i got a quick question on which boost controller would be ideal to use with it.right now im using the hallman mbc w/cockpit control which im planning to replace with the hallman es so i can hide it easier since cali's finest is starting to really crack down on modified cars
also im getting mine tuned with ecutek later on so we'll see what 91 **** has for it 
so zeus i got a quick question on which boost controller would be ideal to use with it.right now im using the hallman mbc w/cockpit control which im planning to replace with the hallman es so i can hide it easier since cali's finest is starting to really crack down on modified cars
also im getting mine tuned with ecutek later on so we'll see what 91 **** has for it
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Aug 27, 2005, 03:53 AM
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Wr
I installed my new actuator yesterday.It was straight foward and very easy.I had noticed the difference for holding boost (higher) and maintaining through redline.The driveability seems to be excellent also.I would reccomend this new actuator for all WR turbo owners.After making several adjustments to the stock actuator it was night and day difference with the new one.
Aug 27, 2005, 05:53 AM
#10
Originally Posted by evo_dadi
FP sent mine also last week but i havent had a chance to install it yet so im like a kid waiting for christmas day
so zeus i got a quick question on which boost controller would be ideal to use with it.right now im using the hallman mbc w/cockpit control which im planning to replace with the hallman es so i can hide it easier since cali's finest is starting to really crack down on modified cars also im getting mine tuned with ecutek later on so we'll see what 91 **** has for it
so zeus i got a quick question on which boost controller would be ideal to use with it.right now im using the hallman mbc w/cockpit control which im planning to replace with the hallman es so i can hide it easier since cali's finest is starting to really crack down on modified cars
also im getting mine tuned with ecutek later on so we'll see what 91 **** has for it 
Aug 30, 2005, 06:24 AM
#12
Yes, there is a bit of a difference now I had to cut my boost solenoid duty cycle back from 89% to 52% at 23 psi with just the switch (Xede). However, after further testing, I need to back off the tension one half turn as I am getting a little creep. As soon as I get the car back up and running (SMART install) I will look at getting a tank of race gas and really crank it up!
I had to cut my boost solenoid duty cycle back from 89% to 52% at 23 psi with just the switch (Xede). However, after further testing, I need to back off the tension one half turn as I am getting a little creep. As soon as I get the car back up and running (SMART install) I will look at getting a tank of race gas and really crank it up!
Aug 30, 2005, 07:05 AM
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Nice finding. I remember reading a thread where a guy picked up some spoolup and some power simply by converting the internal gate to an external gate. You think this may help in anyway as well?
Thanks
Thanks
Aug 30, 2005, 07:20 AM
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^^ i turned down my boost just incase when we were trying out the new actuator to see if its gonna spike or creep but so far we havent seen such things happen *crosses fingers*
