Narrowband O2 values vs. A/F ratios
Sep 8, 2005, 01:08 PM
#31
Originally Posted by mooreboost
You may as well be picking numbers out of a hat if you are tuning off the narrowband o2 numbers.
Sep 8, 2005, 01:23 PM
#32
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Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Well, you didn't mention an MBC. You just said an S-AFC and K&N, so that was different. Most 05s don't even hit 106mph with just an MBC, so your car must be extremely strong. I only hit 106 with exhaust, mbc, s-afc, bov, K&n, although it was on a 12.64, so you must have an extremely strong car, unless those runs were done in the cold of winter or something. Even then, it's far stronger than most 03/04s, so that's good...
I don't know why you only peaked at 15-16...mine peaked at 19-20 just like it was supposed to. I don't think you should lean it out a lot, but if you pull out 1-2% from 4000-7500, you would probably see more .92s and have the same timing....
I don't know why you only peaked at 15-16...mine peaked at 19-20 just like it was supposed to. I don't think you should lean it out a lot, but if you pull out 1-2% from 4000-7500, you would probably see more .92s and have the same timing....
Sep 8, 2005, 02:26 PM
#33
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Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Well, you didn't mention an MBC. You just said an S-AFC and K&N, so that was different. Most 05s don't even hit 106mph with just an MBC, so your car must be extremely strong. I only hit 106 with exhaust, mbc, s-afc, bov, K&n, although it was on a 12.64, so you must have an extremely strong car, unless those runs were done in the cold of winter or something. Even then, it's far stronger than most 03/04s, so that's good...
I don't know why you only peaked at 15-16...mine peaked at 19-20 just like it was supposed to. I don't think you should lean it out a lot, but if you pull out 1-2% from 4000-7500, you would probably see more .92s and have the same timing....
I don't know why you only peaked at 15-16...mine peaked at 19-20 just like it was supposed to. I don't think you should lean it out a lot, but if you pull out 1-2% from 4000-7500, you would probably see more .92s and have the same timing....
No idea why my map was so rich and the timing was so low. I'll put my settings back to 0 and do some pulls to double check tonight.
Sep 8, 2005, 02:43 PM
#34
Originally Posted by AlwaysinBoost
Yes I have a mbc and I used it to trap 106.03. I think it was April that I did it so the weather wasn't too cold. I will be taking it off before I go to the track in hopes of running a 12. My original goal was a 12.9 BONE STOCK but I don't think thats going to happen anytime soon and I don't feel like putting all that wear on my drivetrain trying to knock off a few tenths.
No idea why my map was so rich and the timing was so low. I'll put my settings back to 0 and do some pulls to double check tonight.
No idea why my map was so rich and the timing was so low. I'll put my settings back to 0 and do some pulls to double check tonight.
Of course, when you were hitting 106, that was good enough for 12.6-12.7 with mid 1.7x 60's, so you may hit 12s even with a slight loss or no gain in power thanks to better driving/shifting/launching.
Sep 10, 2005, 02:04 PM
#35
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update!
Ok, got a little update. I've been tuning the AFC with the narrowband for about 1 week now. I've gotten the voltage to .94v all the way across from about 5200 - 7200 and it peaks at 22* by 7100-7200. I decided it was time to go to the track and test it out.
First pass I made with the settings all at 0 on the AFC and the boost was spiking at 1.3bar falling to 1.2 on the MBC. My O2 values at the end of the run was 1.02-1.01 at WOT and peak timing was 18* peak. Timing was higher then I thought off the base map and the o2's were real high.
Next pass I switched maps to the one I have been working on during the week and made my pass. Something weird happened cause on that run my o2 values were almost identical to the zeroed out map, all were around 1.0 - 1.02 and the timing didn't peak higher then 20*. On the street with that map I was getting .94v & 22* peak timing... anyone know what the deal is? the temp outside was almost the same and the car was within normal operating temps.
I was afraid to lean it out more because I thought the ECU was running on some "safe" map dumping a lot of fuel because it saw something I didn't. but my timing wasn't droping anyplace giving me an indication that I was getting knock. It just didn't get as lean & the timing didn't go as high as when I was on the street.
First pass I made with the settings all at 0 on the AFC and the boost was spiking at 1.3bar falling to 1.2 on the MBC. My O2 values at the end of the run was 1.02-1.01 at WOT and peak timing was 18* peak. Timing was higher then I thought off the base map and the o2's were real high.
Next pass I switched maps to the one I have been working on during the week and made my pass. Something weird happened cause on that run my o2 values were almost identical to the zeroed out map, all were around 1.0 - 1.02 and the timing didn't peak higher then 20*. On the street with that map I was getting .94v & 22* peak timing... anyone know what the deal is? the temp outside was almost the same and the car was within normal operating temps.
I was afraid to lean it out more because I thought the ECU was running on some "safe" map dumping a lot of fuel because it saw something I didn't. but my timing wasn't droping anyplace giving me an indication that I was getting knock. It just didn't get as lean & the timing didn't go as high as when I was on the street.
Sep 10, 2005, 03:24 PM
#36
Originally Posted by AlwaysinBoost
Ok, got a little update. I've been tuning the AFC with the narrowband for about 1 week now. I've gotten the voltage to .94v all the way across from about 5200 - 7200 and it peaks at 22* by 7100-7200. I decided it was time to go to the track and test it out.
First pass I made with the settings all at 0 on the AFC and the boost was spiking at 1.3bar falling to 1.2 on the MBC. My O2 values at the end of the run was 1.02-1.01 at WOT and peak timing was 18* peak. Timing was higher then I thought off the base map and the o2's were real high.
Next pass I switched maps to the one I have been working on during the week and made my pass. Something weird happened cause on that run my o2 values were almost identical to the zeroed out map, all were around 1.0 - 1.02 and the timing didn't peak higher then 20*. On the street with that map I was getting .94v & 22* peak timing... anyone know what the deal is? the temp outside was almost the same and the car was within normal operating temps.
I was afraid to lean it out more because I thought the ECU was running on some "safe" map dumping a lot of fuel because it saw something I didn't. but my timing wasn't droping anyplace giving me an indication that I was getting knock. It just didn't get as lean & the timing didn't go as high as when I was on the street.
First pass I made with the settings all at 0 on the AFC and the boost was spiking at 1.3bar falling to 1.2 on the MBC. My O2 values at the end of the run was 1.02-1.01 at WOT and peak timing was 18* peak. Timing was higher then I thought off the base map and the o2's were real high.
Next pass I switched maps to the one I have been working on during the week and made my pass. Something weird happened cause on that run my o2 values were almost identical to the zeroed out map, all were around 1.0 - 1.02 and the timing didn't peak higher then 20*. On the street with that map I was getting .94v & 22* peak timing... anyone know what the deal is? the temp outside was almost the same and the car was within normal operating temps.
I was afraid to lean it out more because I thought the ECU was running on some "safe" map dumping a lot of fuel because it saw something I didn't. but my timing wasn't droping anyplace giving me an indication that I was getting knock. It just didn't get as lean & the timing didn't go as high as when I was on the street.
So, no 12s this time I'm guessing? =P
Sep 10, 2005, 06:39 PM
#37
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Originally Posted by Warrtalon
Ah yes, welcome to the wonderful world of tuning. I see the same thing everytime I go to the track, because if you notice, you don't go below 5500 rpm in any gear, so your tuning focus has to change. A street tune does not translate very well into a drag strip tune. Your boost doesn't spike, since you don't slowly roll into boost like you do on the street. I always have to have a separate tune for daily driving, then change it for when I'm at the track. Your boost behaves differently, so you just have to make a few runs and dial it in...
So, no 12s this time I'm guessing? =P
So, no 12s this time I'm guessing? =P
. I wish I would have known that before I went. So I guess I'll keep one map for the street and the other for the track. I have noticed that my boost seems a lot lower when I'm at the track then when on the street. There is a definate decrease in boost spike when at the track, unlike the street. If I was seeing 1.4 bar on the street in 5th gear is usually translates into a solid 1.25bar in 3rd & 4th on the track.
Sep 11, 2005, 06:45 PM
#38
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bringing this back up cause I had another question after I did some thinking today.
My "street" tune was taking as much as 8% of fuel out up top by 7200 rpm, leaving me with a nice .94v reading across the RPM band. When I used that map at the track my O2 value was above 1.02v almost all the way across the RPM band. So I was thinking if I were to lean it out enough at the track to get back to the .94v I saw on the street I think I would be @ -18% up top, does that sound right for a stock fuel system??
My "street" tune was taking as much as 8% of fuel out up top by 7200 rpm, leaving me with a nice .94v reading across the RPM band. When I used that map at the track my O2 value was above 1.02v almost all the way across the RPM band. So I was thinking if I were to lean it out enough at the track to get back to the .94v I saw on the street I think I would be @ -18% up top, does that sound right for a stock fuel system??
Sep 11, 2005, 07:15 PM
#39
Originally Posted by mike 99gsx
Here is my experiences on a 2g DSM a few years ago before I had an AEM. I would tune the car with a VPC and pocketlogger. I would see consistent .98v O2 readings on the pocketlogger which corresponded to 12.5-12.6 A/F readings on two different tail pipe sniffers on two different dynos. After that experience, I will never trust a narrowband again.
Take my expereince for what its worth.
Take my expereince for what its worth.
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