Revolver Cam Test! HKS who?
Nov 27, 2005, 12:09 PM
#61
Originally Posted by Ted B
Unless we have cam specs however, we don't really know what we're comparing.
But I will find out if we are allowed to publish those findings.
Nov 27, 2005, 12:11 PM
#62
Originally Posted by Precision Dyno
This is what we will do. I will have an evo with stock cams come in this week.
Throw a set of HKS 272s on the car. Dyno without a tune. Then with a tune.
Then throw the revolvers in without a tune and get some raw data to see where we are.
The tune and compare results.
I will keep everyone updated this week.
Throw a set of HKS 272s on the car. Dyno without a tune. Then with a tune.
Then throw the revolvers in without a tune and get some raw data to see where we are.
The tune and compare results.
I will keep everyone updated this week.
Nick use my car.
Nov 27, 2005, 12:11 PM
#63
Originally Posted by Ted B
If we really wanted to make a revealing test that truly exposes the differences between these cams, we'd want to do something like this:
Chuck the Revolver set in the car. Use a degree wheel and dial indicator and record the lift, duration, and lobe centerline specs for both the intake and exhaust cam. Using the duration at 1mm lift specs, select the HKS cam set that most closely matches the Revolver set. As of right now, we don't know which HKS set that is, and we cannot go by advertised duration numbers to make that determination.
Use adjustable cam gears to adjust the Revolver set to match the lobe centerlines of the HKS set as installed straight up. This reduces the effective difference to lift differences, a few degrees of duration (probably not very significant) and ramp design. Tune and dyno. Reset the cam gears to "0" and dyno again.
Next, we install the HKS set straight up, tune, and dyno. Finally, we adjust our cam gears to match the lobe centerlines of the Revolver set as installed straight up, and dyno again.
This tells us quite a lot:
- We now have the specs for the Revolver cams
- We find the HKS set that most closely matches those cams, which gives people a familiar, fair point of reference.
- We know which cam performs better, eliminating lobe centerlines and most of the duration difference as influencing factors.
- We gain some insight as to which lobe centerlines tend to work better for this application.
The testing may seem involved at first, but it really isn't if you have the tools to do it. Changing cam gear settings and making dyno runs back to back is a snap.
Chuck the Revolver set in the car. Use a degree wheel and dial indicator and record the lift, duration, and lobe centerline specs for both the intake and exhaust cam. Using the duration at 1mm lift specs, select the HKS cam set that most closely matches the Revolver set. As of right now, we don't know which HKS set that is, and we cannot go by advertised duration numbers to make that determination.
Use adjustable cam gears to adjust the Revolver set to match the lobe centerlines of the HKS set as installed straight up. This reduces the effective difference to lift differences, a few degrees of duration (probably not very significant) and ramp design. Tune and dyno. Reset the cam gears to "0" and dyno again.
Next, we install the HKS set straight up, tune, and dyno. Finally, we adjust our cam gears to match the lobe centerlines of the Revolver set as installed straight up, and dyno again.
This tells us quite a lot:
- We now have the specs for the Revolver cams
- We find the HKS set that most closely matches those cams, which gives people a familiar, fair point of reference.
- We know which cam performs better, eliminating lobe centerlines and most of the duration difference as influencing factors.
- We gain some insight as to which lobe centerlines tend to work better for this application.
The testing may seem involved at first, but it really isn't if you have the tools to do it. Changing cam gear settings and making dyno runs back to back is a snap.
Last edited by Precision Dyno; Nov 27, 2005 at 12:13 PM.
Nov 27, 2005, 02:11 PM
#65
After doing a lot of research on cams, if I were to ever do cams I would definately do revolver cams.
http://www.revolvercams.com/specsheets/evospecs.htm
http://www.revolvercams.com/specsheets/evospecs.htm
Nov 27, 2005, 02:38 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by Ted B
There are too many unknowns:
- We don't know the effective duration of the Revolver set. It's possible that the effective duration of the Revolver could actually be longer than the HKS 272 set, despite the advertised numbers. This in fact could make the Revolver set actually more comparable to the HKS 280 set for at least that reason.
- We don't know the effective duration of the Revolver set. It's possible that the effective duration of the Revolver could actually be longer than the HKS 272 set, despite the advertised numbers. This in fact could make the Revolver set actually more comparable to the HKS 280 set for at least that reason.
Id like to thank Precision Dyno for the time and open minded attitude towards our products.
Nov 27, 2005, 02:42 PM
#67
Originally Posted by ogvw
Our duration numbers as measured at the standard (1mm/ .040" ) on our Evo cam set is 222*/223* for intake/exhaust respectively.
Id like to thank Precision Dyno for the time and open minded attitude towards our products.
Id like to thank Precision Dyno for the time and open minded attitude towards our products.
Very infrequently do we run into an organization that tells us about their product and how it will perform, then actually live by the standard.
Good job guys. We will be doing alot of business together.
Nov 27, 2005, 02:47 PM
#68
Originally Posted by ogvw
Our duration numbers as measured at the standard (1mm/ .040" ) on our Evo cam set is 222*/223* for intake/exhaust respectively.
What are the lobe centerlines?
Last edited by Ted B; Nov 27, 2005 at 09:43 PM.
Nov 27, 2005, 06:02 PM
#70
Originally Posted by ogvw
Our duration numbers as measured at the standard (1mm/ .040" ) on our Evo cam set is 222*/223* for intake/exhaust respectively.
Id like to thank Precision Dyno for the time and open minded attitude towards our products.
Id like to thank Precision Dyno for the time and open minded attitude towards our products.
Loving the cams, can't wait to get an AEM in there.
Nov 28, 2005, 12:11 PM
#71
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Our intake cam @ 1mm or .040": 222 deg., @ 1.27mm or .050" : 218 deg., @ 2.54mm or .100" : 192 deg. Exhaust cam: @ 1mm or .040" : 223 deg., @ 1.27mm or .050" : 219 deg., @ 2.54mm or .100" @ 194 deg.
Those are actual numbers. I also want to thank Tim and Nick for their willingness to try our products and the excellent info posted. We are stoked with your results!!!
Those are actual numbers. I also want to thank Tim and Nick for their willingness to try our products and the excellent info posted. We are stoked with your results!!!
Nov 28, 2005, 02:51 PM
#75
Very well, if the Revolver cams are ground on stock centerlines, that would be 109 ATDC Intake and 111 BTDC Exhaust.
Now we know:
- If one really wants to compare the Revolver and HKS cams head-to-head, he will need to use the HKS 280s, because the effective duration of that cam set is virtually identical to the Revolver set.
- To match a set of Revolver cams installed straight up, one will need to dial the cam settings on the HKS 280s to +.5/-.5. Conversely, to match the HKS 280s installed straight up, one would need to install the Revolvers at -.5/+.5.
When this is done with a proper comparison test, it reduces the differences to lift and ramp shape. This is important, because unlike lobe centerlines, it cannot be changed with a set of cam gears.
Now we know:
- If one really wants to compare the Revolver and HKS cams head-to-head, he will need to use the HKS 280s, because the effective duration of that cam set is virtually identical to the Revolver set.
- To match a set of Revolver cams installed straight up, one will need to dial the cam settings on the HKS 280s to +.5/-.5. Conversely, to match the HKS 280s installed straight up, one would need to install the Revolvers at -.5/+.5.
When this is done with a proper comparison test, it reduces the differences to lift and ramp shape. This is important, because unlike lobe centerlines, it cannot be changed with a set of cam gears.