what grade mobil 1?
Jul 31, 2003 | 10:07 AM
#46
Evolving Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Originally posted by diesel_fan
Just a little added info on Mobil1. All the Mobil1 oils use VI's or viscosity index improvers in order to cover the spread of cold to hot viscosity ratings on the bottle. The bigger the spread, the more VI's are typically needed to keep the oil's desired characteristics. The additional caveat is the quality of the synthetic basestock used, in other words the "virgin" condition of the oil. If the basestock is higher quality, it needs less VI's.
...
That said, all the Mobil1's tends to thin out as the VI's are essentially used up / burned up in the oil. Mobil1 oils may state they're xW-30 or xW-40, but if you take a look at the kinematic viscosities at temperature, they're all on the edge of their stated SAE ranges. For example 10W-30 is real close to the 20W range once at operating termperature.
...
If it were my Evo (maybe someday), I'd find the highest quality 10W-30 API certified oil (probably M1) and change it no longer than every 3k if tracking / autocrossing constantly, or 5k if just for street use. I would also begin running a UOA (used oil analysis)program to see what the hell happened to the oil of my choice after use.
Talk is cheap, results are better. UOA is the only thing which will conclusively let you know how well the oil stayed in grade, detergency left, wear metals, etc. All the rest of the information in this thread is just that talk, useful for discussion, but perhaps not for conclusion.
Just a little added info on Mobil1. All the Mobil1 oils use VI's or viscosity index improvers in order to cover the spread of cold to hot viscosity ratings on the bottle. The bigger the spread, the more VI's are typically needed to keep the oil's desired characteristics. The additional caveat is the quality of the synthetic basestock used, in other words the "virgin" condition of the oil. If the basestock is higher quality, it needs less VI's.
...
That said, all the Mobil1's tends to thin out as the VI's are essentially used up / burned up in the oil. Mobil1 oils may state they're xW-30 or xW-40, but if you take a look at the kinematic viscosities at temperature, they're all on the edge of their stated SAE ranges. For example 10W-30 is real close to the 20W range once at operating termperature.
...
If it were my Evo (maybe someday), I'd find the highest quality 10W-30 API certified oil (probably M1) and change it no longer than every 3k if tracking / autocrossing constantly, or 5k if just for street use. I would also begin running a UOA (used oil analysis)program to see what the hell happened to the oil of my choice after use.
Talk is cheap, results are better. UOA is the only thing which will conclusively let you know how well the oil stayed in grade, detergency left, wear metals, etc. All the rest of the information in this thread is just that talk, useful for discussion, but perhaps not for conclusion.
IIRC, Mitsu spec'd synth for the USDM Evo out of concerns for turbo bearing coking. This is surprising as I would expect the JDM driving duty cycle to be much more severe from the turbo's standpoint as there a LOT more on-off-on-off cycles. Certainly synth will resist coking much better than dino juice.
How does a normal schmoe get UOA done?
Jul 31, 2003 | 10:42 AM
#47
bottom line for me is that the service manager said that if people are not having oil changes done under the pit pass program or by a mitsu dealer "they better be saving there receipts"
I agree that mobil 1 is not the be all and end all, and if you want to risk that conversation with your service manager after you have a bearing faiure and they ask for your receipts from oil changes go right ahead.
But for me, It will either be pit pass or mobil 1 10W-30 and all receipts will go in the little gray puch along with the owners manual.
I agree that mobil 1 is not the be all and end all, and if you want to risk that conversation with your service manager after you have a bearing faiure and they ask for your receipts from oil changes go right ahead.
But for me, It will either be pit pass or mobil 1 10W-30 and all receipts will go in the little gray puch along with the owners manual.
Aug 10, 2003 | 07:15 AM
#48
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 21
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Originally posted by JeffGST
I guess all you guys can call me cheap, or you can also call me cost effective. I like to spend my money where it counts the most. I have not read the EVO VIII manual, and there is a slight possibility that if you dont use "MOBIL 1" there may be engine damage.
Think about it this way. What if the Mitsubishi said it differently? The motor may break down if conventional oil was used. Would you actually buy an engine that will break down when non-synthetic is used? The 4G63 is built strong! Mitsu did not give us a super sensitive motor that will fall apart on us.
Mobil 1 probably paid Mitsubishi a few extra million dollars so that their name would end up in the service manual. That way all you guys would not think of using any other brand. I think it's great marketing techniques that are working.
I also feel that everyone has a right to use whatever they feel is right for their engine. I just like to put my 2 cents on here, because I like to share my experience with the 4G63 for the last 5 years now.
4G63 = 420HP to the wheels = 108,000 miles = Legendary Motor
I guess all you guys can call me cheap, or you can also call me cost effective. I like to spend my money where it counts the most. I have not read the EVO VIII manual, and there is a slight possibility that if you dont use "MOBIL 1" there may be engine damage.
Think about it this way. What if the Mitsubishi said it differently? The motor may break down if conventional oil was used. Would you actually buy an engine that will break down when non-synthetic is used? The 4G63 is built strong! Mitsu did not give us a super sensitive motor that will fall apart on us.
Mobil 1 probably paid Mitsubishi a few extra million dollars so that their name would end up in the service manual. That way all you guys would not think of using any other brand. I think it's great marketing techniques that are working.
I also feel that everyone has a right to use whatever they feel is right for their engine. I just like to put my 2 cents on here, because I like to share my experience with the 4G63 for the last 5 years now.
4G63 = 420HP to the wheels = 108,000 miles = Legendary Motor
Let also remember.
The new 4g63t in the Evo is a new revision and as such tolerences are tighter and oil galleries are smaller and cooling is better.
that is why it runs a 10w30 synthetic.
The older 4g63t like in your 98 eclipse are made to run with oil of non synthetic quality. The tolerences are made for such.
running a dino oil or even a weight above 30 and you can cause oil starvation to your bearings and clog up your HLAs.
Aug 26, 2003 | 06:08 PM
#50
Evolving Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
Just changed my oil today, put in 5-30wt Redline. Great Stuff.
I had 4100 miles on the OEM Mobil 1 - I consumed 1 quart in this time, and it came out looking like black water. I've seen this with any other synth oil except Redline, AMS and Vollesynth (sp) (Royal Purple too). I know that Mobil has changed the formulation and from what I've heard it's not as good. Do they spec two oils now?
Usually going from dino to Redline gives a nice "quieting" of the valvetrain, just a bit more throttle response, and depending on engine (worked great in the WRX) lets it rev just a little easier up top. I didnt notice anything going from Mobil 1 to Redline in terms of noise, it was very hot today so I don't think I could tell if any other change has happened. Feels about the same to me. What will get me to continue to pay $9 a quart is it's "strength". It just doesnt break down like other oils. I used to go 7000 miles + on NA engines before a change and it came out very "clingy" much like it was when new. On the WRX I used it for probably 50K miles combined on both, for the first time I saw how harsh the turbo heat is....I went 5K miles on the WRX before a change and it wasnt looking good though not as bad as what came out my Evo today. I think you could push a turbo car on this oil to 6K miles of fairly easy driving, but you'll probably feel guilty. I'm going to run 4,000 miles on this change and see what happens. Once I get my oil temp gauge I'd like to see if there's a difference in temps between these oils.
I had 4100 miles on the OEM Mobil 1 - I consumed 1 quart in this time, and it came out looking like black water. I've seen this with any other synth oil except Redline, AMS and Vollesynth (sp) (Royal Purple too). I know that Mobil has changed the formulation and from what I've heard it's not as good. Do they spec two oils now?
Usually going from dino to Redline gives a nice "quieting" of the valvetrain, just a bit more throttle response, and depending on engine (worked great in the WRX) lets it rev just a little easier up top. I didnt notice anything going from Mobil 1 to Redline in terms of noise, it was very hot today so I don't think I could tell if any other change has happened. Feels about the same to me. What will get me to continue to pay $9 a quart is it's "strength". It just doesnt break down like other oils. I used to go 7000 miles + on NA engines before a change and it came out very "clingy" much like it was when new. On the WRX I used it for probably 50K miles combined on both, for the first time I saw how harsh the turbo heat is....I went 5K miles on the WRX before a change and it wasnt looking good though not as bad as what came out my Evo today. I think you could push a turbo car on this oil to 6K miles of fairly easy driving, but you'll probably feel guilty. I'm going to run 4,000 miles on this change and see what happens. Once I get my oil temp gauge I'd like to see if there's a difference in temps between these oils.
Aug 26, 2003 | 06:57 PM
#51
Originally posted by diesel_fan
If the 4G63's everywhere else in the world are not spec'd differently in terms of bearing clearances, etc and call for 20W-50 or 10W-40, then it's probable you'll not cause an engine related failure with selecting a higher weight of oil. KEEP in mind though that in climates such as Oz that it never really gets that cold. And "probably" doesn't really cut it for warranty concerns!
If the 4G63's everywhere else in the world are not spec'd differently in terms of bearing clearances, etc and call for 20W-50 or 10W-40, then it's probable you'll not cause an engine related failure with selecting a higher weight of oil. KEEP in mind though that in climates such as Oz that it never really gets that cold. And "probably" doesn't really cut it for warranty concerns!
Aug 27, 2003 | 07:00 AM
#52
This thread is never ending. It goes away for awhile, but always comes back. 
Anybody have feelings about Castrol Syntec vs. the new "reformulated" Mobil1?
Regarding xW50 or xW60 oils, I'd definitely say no on the Evo's 4G63. Mitsu put 20W50 in my 2G Eclipse right before the warranty expired to quiet the lifter tap.
What a joke. Sure, the lash adjusters got quiet, but once I changed the oil the next time, the tap was back. I'll definitely run 5W30 or 10W30 in my car.
Are any of you guys breaking in on conventional oil and switching to synthetic at between 5~10k? I've heard that a fairly popular trend.
Lastly, beating an old horse here, but I also give a major thumbs down to turbo timers. If I can help it, I NEVER set my e-brake when parking- but I usually park on level surfaces. If you've been braking at speed at all, you'll hot spot your rear rotors. SCREW THAT on these expensive brakes!! Somebody mentioned your car getting hit while it is in gear and that damaging the transmission. Gimme a break! If they 1/100000 chance that happens, insurance will cover it. Insurance will not cover warped rotors, though. Great reason to NOT have a TT, IMO. If you've been running the car hard, take the time to drive really gently when approaching your destination, and sit in the car a few extra seconds and let the turbo get circulated oil at idle. These are not old-tech turbos, and I agree that with good care, they'll last a long time. Also on a TT, I'm not pulling my key and walking away. A guy at a nearby office was driving his DSM hard, got out and activated the TT, then went in to his office while his radiator cap failed and coolant exploded and ran over everything--- while the car was still running the entire time for like 3 minutes, resulting in engine damage.
No turbo timer for this guy!
Anybody have feelings about Castrol Syntec vs. the new "reformulated" Mobil1?
Regarding xW50 or xW60 oils, I'd definitely say no on the Evo's 4G63. Mitsu put 20W50 in my 2G Eclipse right before the warranty expired to quiet the lifter tap.
What a joke. Sure, the lash adjusters got quiet, but once I changed the oil the next time, the tap was back. I'll definitely run 5W30 or 10W30 in my car.Are any of you guys breaking in on conventional oil and switching to synthetic at between 5~10k? I've heard that a fairly popular trend.
Lastly, beating an old horse here, but I also give a major thumbs down to turbo timers. If I can help it, I NEVER set my e-brake when parking- but I usually park on level surfaces. If you've been braking at speed at all, you'll hot spot your rear rotors. SCREW THAT on these expensive brakes!! Somebody mentioned your car getting hit while it is in gear and that damaging the transmission. Gimme a break! If they 1/100000 chance that happens, insurance will cover it. Insurance will not cover warped rotors, though. Great reason to NOT have a TT, IMO. If you've been running the car hard, take the time to drive really gently when approaching your destination, and sit in the car a few extra seconds and let the turbo get circulated oil at idle. These are not old-tech turbos, and I agree that with good care, they'll last a long time. Also on a TT, I'm not pulling my key and walking away. A guy at a nearby office was driving his DSM hard, got out and activated the TT, then went in to his office while his radiator cap failed and coolant exploded and ran over everything--- while the car was still running the entire time for like 3 minutes, resulting in engine damage.
No turbo timer for this guy!
Jul 25, 2004 | 11:06 AM
#54
Originally Posted by SRD
true dat
small price to pay, for peace of mind.
Its chump change. Don't go out one weekend and I'm already ahead!
small price to pay, for peace of mind.
Its chump change. Don't go out one weekend and I'm already ahead!
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