BadazzCR

iTrader: (5)

Well technically speaking you could run two maps with the AEM. By using the nitrous maps and the hi/lo boost switch feature with the aem.

With a flick of a switch it would enable the nitrous maps which could be setup to pull fuel and add timing, while the hi/lo boost switch could add in the additional boost for the racegas map.

VTECH8TR- You should know this it works the same way meth is setup in the aem, meth comes on... it activates the nitrous map which pulls fuel, adds timing, and raises the boost.

Miami DSM

and

Thank you sir, beat me too it This is what I meant, nice to have especially if you run outa alky.

Sorry Should have mentioned laptop map storage, I just like they way a properly tuned AEM EMS works. I have been trough a couple of piggy back units (Namely the UTEC and the SAFCII which leave a lot to be desired) WOT was great, but as far as daily driving the car never really ran properly, kinda like driving with a light switch. I have settled on a flash but again it works well WOT, part throttle is kinda shakey and I have farts and coughs and hicups, the weather also effects it surprisingly so it has little consistancy. I like the EMS and it's logging capabilities, the fact that it is compatable with everything you have done to your car in terms of mods. I also have very VERY good tuners by me, one by the Name of Sean Ivey.

_________________
WWW.IVEYTUNE.COM
4G63 Tuning Specialist
9.41 sec 150mph 1/4



I have also seen the benefits of Alky and the EMS and I am hooked on that, I also like the fact that if you run out of alky, you can switch back to a non alky map.



Most venders agree that the AEM EMS when properly tuned will trump any piggy back unit.

VTECH8TR

iTrader: (70)

Shiv,

You can run 2 maps on the AEM. I run my normal pump gas map and i use the NOS map for alternate fueling and iginition advance. When the methanol hits a certain preset boost my NOS map is automatically activated and my boost is raised as well : ).

Badazzcr has been helping me with this .

Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

I agree. It wasn't meant to be a scientific comparison, just a general one. I getting sick of everyone saying that "If you get a turbo kit, you really need to get an AEM."


Like you said, in a more scientific comparison, AT THESE POWER LEVELS, you wouldn't expect to see a big difference in power output.


I agree completely. I know that AEM equiped cars can run like stock. I definitely commend you and several other tuners for yours abilities.


DB, I feel like you are one of the most stand up vendors I know of in this regard. I have seen you repeatedly say this to your customers. I have also often read where you set people straight about not needing injector upgrades for stock turbos. I have seen you also post that smallish injectors (660cc IIRC) can still handle a lot more than people commonly believe.


1. DB, I'm the one that first came up with the idea. I noticed that the moderators club is called the BOMB SQUAD, so I thought TRUTH SQUAD would allign nicely with that.

2. The idea is that many experienced customers on these forums have a lot of knowledge that they are willing to share with people before they let loose of their hard earned cash. What keeps us honest is that we are not fans of just one approach to modding our cars. Some, like me, lean towards Vishnu and AMS. But just as many others lean towards Buschur and/or Dynoflash. We have our opinions and angles, but we question each other and keep each other honest. Also, by saying I am "in" the truth squad, I am giving my promise to try my very best to step out of my personal biases and be objective.

3. Tuners and fabricators such as yourself are welcome to post technical info and help out where appropriate, but we want to try to keep those with the profit motive to post only when they really feel the need to help people.

4. Finally, to be truthful, I have some issues issues with Buschur Racing. But I have issues with Vishnu, Works, and Dynoflash as well. However, I believe that the T-Squad will benefit you and the other tuner/vendors as well. Shops with good products, good tuning, and good business practices will be the biggest benefactors of this group.

5. You should take a look at the cam gear poll I started. I kept it honest and I think you will probably use it to back up your belief that they are not reliable enough. I wish I would have left the poll up WAY longer to have gotten a better sample, but 9% of the respondants reported problems with them.

EVOONYOASS

iTrader: (2)

^^^This is why Dougie fresh tunes my AEM EMS!

silverEVO8

iTrader: (12)

I'm not sure I understand you completely... Do you now have an AEM EMS? or are you contemplating getting one?.. If you have not gotten the AEM EMS yet and you've had all these problems with the SAFCII, UTEC and reflash, you might find a myriad more problems with the AEM EMS..... Nothing intrinsically wrong with it and no disrespect for your tuner, but if he cannot get your car to run perfectly with a reflash or the SAFCII, I think he'll have a nightmare with the AEM EMS and you will regret the day you ever heard of it... Trust me on this, I speak from experience......


I'm sure you like the way a properly set up AEM EMS equipped car runs, but have you ever seen what a not so perfectly tuned car with AEM EMS runs like? You are right that it has awesome datalogging capabilities, and it also can be compatible with a huge number of modifications. I don't know about the UTEC, however, a proper reflash can also be compatible with many modifications and so can the XEDE. If I'm not mistaken the XEDE can be setup to support alcohol injection and similar things as well.... You also must clarify that most vendors should not agree that a properly setup AEM can trump any piggyback unless they place no value on the OBDII compliance, easy reversability back to stock, emissions legality and dead on perfect driveability in most cases. Sure, a properly used stand alone EMS can be an awesome tool for very high performance levels, but it's probably a terrible waste of $$ and a potential source of major problems if all you want is an EVO modified to around 400 whp....

Miami DSM

Oh I have a new tuner lined up BELIEVE me, but my BIGGEST issue was throttle tip in, like if your crusing along and decide to floor it, not too good, sometimes I would get MASSIVE timing pull, so noise and no acceleration. From a stop I was fine.

Speedlimit

I have a bomb squad tag on my name and I haven't a clue what it means. You can have mine if you want.

I am concerned about a "Truth Squad". Specifically the implication that only a small group of members have credibility here. We have a Guru tag for members (recommended by members) who have shown solid technical skills and a willingness to share. I see problems; how can a Guru member or vendor possibly disagree with the "Truth"? There are better choices for a name.

The initiative to expand technical references on this site is terrific and I hope we can continue to organize that effort. We are working on a DSM FAQ style data base tuned for the Evo and will need help filling in the blanks. As Timzcat mentioned an Advanced tuner forum is in the works and Ali will be providing more details.

Finally, I am troubled by a few recent threads in which the "Truth Squad" willingly participated in flame fest, regardless of who started it. I think Dave expressed the vendor point of view (with his usual clarity ). The moderators have not discussed the topic yet, but we will. Thanks.

Smogrunner

iTrader: (5)

I'm looking into actually arranging a truly scientific comparison. I'm sure I could get a friend with an AEM to volunteer their unit. Or, maybe someone that is selling their used one would let us borrow it. This would be one way to ensure buyers that it works perfectly... I think I could get a baseline AEM map for my car from AMS to save Alfred the time of starting from scratch (not that you need it Alfred ). He could fine tune both tuning platforms to have the comparable AFR, boost, and timing. Same tank of C16, same dyno, same day, (or possibly the next day). Of course we could post logs/video of the session as well.

David Buschur

iTrader: (53)

I would say if you want it to be truly scientific get Shiv to tune the Exede and fly in a real Pro AEM tuner to do the AEM. Then you will have a comparison worth reading about.

My guess still stands that there will be little to no power difference between the two and your combination.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

jj_008

iTrader: (8)

I agree w/ both statements.

This comparision does show that the stock MAF is good for over 500whp though.

robertrinaustin

iTrader: (5)

I think as usual, Ted cuts right to the true point. I wonder if you can really set up a test that actually measures differences? And, in the end, it's a bunch of trouble to find out that a stand alone makes a little more whp or doesn't.

What I think would be more interesting to test and probably easier for Smoggy, is to determine the practical limits of the Exede stock ECU combo. At what power level does this combo loose drivability or the ability to make higher whp?

propellerhead

iTrader: (3)

Surely Shiv can pull some editorial strings to pull together the resources necessary to perform a fair and unbiased comparison. And I mean that sincerely. The comparos I've read out of that magazine seem farily level headed. Heck, might as well throw a Utec into the mix as well...

Miami DSM

Hmmmm, How well does the ECUTEC software stack up to the likes of the AEM EMS and of course XEDE?


How well does the ECUTEC run with Alky and how safely?

joeymia

iTrader: (6)

Looking a dyno graph will not show the strengths of neither system. You have look more closely at the features they provide. Getting a car to perform good at WOT on a dyno is not rocket science. Getting a car to drive good for everday is different story. I have seen cars that make tons of power on the dyno but they have horrible tip-in problems, they stall, sometimes don't even start etc...