TILTON C/C vs EXEDY TRIPPLE CARBON
Dec 29, 2005, 10:48 AM
#16
I'll just chime in for old times sake...
Here's the *REAL* Bottom Line... When talking about Evos, and Evos only - the ONLY proven clutchs are the ACT and the Exedy.
All I can say is look whos using them and look whos going fast.
TurboTrix and a Plethora of other fast cars - ACT
AMS, DynoFlash, Buschur and many others - Exedy
An Evo with a Tilton has yet to make any eye opening passes - and yes, I know it's brand new - but untill then, we'll just have to wait and see...
Here's the *REAL* Bottom Line... When talking about Evos, and Evos only - the ONLY proven clutchs are the ACT and the Exedy.
All I can say is look whos using them and look whos going fast.
TurboTrix and a Plethora of other fast cars - ACT
AMS, DynoFlash, Buschur and many others - Exedy
An Evo with a Tilton has yet to make any eye opening passes - and yes, I know it's brand new - but untill then, we'll just have to wait and see...
Dec 29, 2005, 11:38 AM
#17
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Before Tilton is given a bad name... Was the hydraulic release bearing failure installation realted? From my experience, the majority of "failures" are due to mis-installation. Most commonly, the failure is because the customer neglects to set a postive stop on the clutch pedal as the instructions state. When a stop is not set, there is a chance that piston/seal gets over-extended and comes out of the release bearing's body.
Tilton hydraulic release bearings are considered the best of their type in the racing industry, used in most every form of racing worldwide. In fact, every Indy Racing League (IRL) chassis that Dallara builds uses a Tilton hydraulic release bearing. Every 996 GT3 RSR that Porsche builds comes with a Tilton hydrualic release bearing, where these cars see over 15,000 shifts at the 24 Hours of Le Mans and Daytona. Over 70% of cars competing in the NASCAR Cup Series use Tilton. Just to name a few.
In short, Tilton build a very reliable hydraulic release bearing. Yes any part can fail, at any time. What failed on the release bearing on the Pro Rally car? Did the piston/seal get over-extended, or did the seal fail? If the seal failed, could it have seal have failed because of dirt that may have got into the brake fluid and damaged the seal? Was the failed unit on that was adapter to a car, or was it part of one of Tilton complete clutch packages. Sometimes, customers adapt Tilton release bearing to custom/specialty applications and may not get the set-up correct.
Yes, it is easier to change a external slave cyldiner, but the Tilton hydraulic release bearing does have a lot of advantage to offer. It is not fair to say that putting the slave cylinder in the bellhousing is risky at the very least. Most every Professional-level race team use a hydraulic release bearing (Tilton, AP Racing, etc) that is mounted inside the bellhousing/transmission. They must are living on the edge and are lucky to finish a race!
Tilton hydraulic release bearings are considered the best of their type in the racing industry, used in most every form of racing worldwide. In fact, every Indy Racing League (IRL) chassis that Dallara builds uses a Tilton hydraulic release bearing. Every 996 GT3 RSR that Porsche builds comes with a Tilton hydrualic release bearing, where these cars see over 15,000 shifts at the 24 Hours of Le Mans and Daytona. Over 70% of cars competing in the NASCAR Cup Series use Tilton. Just to name a few.
In short, Tilton build a very reliable hydraulic release bearing. Yes any part can fail, at any time. What failed on the release bearing on the Pro Rally car? Did the piston/seal get over-extended, or did the seal fail? If the seal failed, could it have seal have failed because of dirt that may have got into the brake fluid and damaged the seal? Was the failed unit on that was adapter to a car, or was it part of one of Tilton complete clutch packages. Sometimes, customers adapt Tilton release bearing to custom/specialty applications and may not get the set-up correct.
Yes, it is easier to change a external slave cyldiner, but the Tilton hydraulic release bearing does have a lot of advantage to offer. It is not fair to say that putting the slave cylinder in the bellhousing is risky at the very least. Most every Professional-level race team use a hydraulic release bearing (Tilton, AP Racing, etc) that is mounted inside the bellhousing/transmission. They must are living on the edge and are lucky to finish a race!
Originally Posted by beavis4g63t
this statement is not even remotely true. do some research about the instances of slave failure on the tiltons. the failure happens inside the bell housing which means the trans has to come off to fix the slave. how do i know? because i've personally seen it happen three times. we had dnf's the first stage of pro rally events because of the tilton. putting the slave inside the trans is risky to say the least. the exedy design has plenty of holding power. hell i've seen the stock clutch go 12's dozens of times with the right driver. you can destroy any clutch if you don't know how to drive.
Dec 29, 2005, 12:02 PM
#18
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Tilton may not have a "proven pass" in a EVO (because it is a new product), but I know of many Supras, Hondas and others have "proven passes". This does not include all the other non-street performance/sport compact applications that Tilton serves. It is also funny to hear that Exedy sends customers to Tilton because their clutches will not hold the power. Need I say more.
Also, I know of open track/road racing EVOs using Tilton with great sucess. Road racing probably puts more (in different aspects) demands on a clutch than drag racing. In drag racing, the clutch needs to hold power at a 1/4-mile at a time. In road racing, a clutch sees numerous down and up shifts over many miles.
Their clutches are very well proven, it is just a matter time before they make a "prove pass" in a EVO.
Also, I know of open track/road racing EVOs using Tilton with great sucess. Road racing probably puts more (in different aspects) demands on a clutch than drag racing. In drag racing, the clutch needs to hold power at a 1/4-mile at a time. In road racing, a clutch sees numerous down and up shifts over many miles.
Their clutches are very well proven, it is just a matter time before they make a "prove pass" in a EVO.
Originally Posted by MattGold
I'll just chime in for old times sake...
Here's the *REAL* Bottom Line... When talking about Evos, and Evos only - the ONLY proven clutchs are the ACT and the Exedy.
All I can say is look whos using them and look whos going fast.
TurboTrix and a Plethora of other fast cars - ACT
AMS, DynoFlash, Buschur and many others - Exedy
An Evo with a Tilton has yet to make any eye opening passes - and yes, I know it's brand new - but untill then, we'll just have to wait and see...
Here's the *REAL* Bottom Line... When talking about Evos, and Evos only - the ONLY proven clutchs are the ACT and the Exedy.
All I can say is look whos using them and look whos going fast.
TurboTrix and a Plethora of other fast cars - ACT
AMS, DynoFlash, Buschur and many others - Exedy
An Evo with a Tilton has yet to make any eye opening passes - and yes, I know it's brand new - but untill then, we'll just have to wait and see...
Dec 29, 2005, 01:15 PM
#19
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AMS, DynoFlash, Buschur and many others - Exedy
AMS, DynoFlash, Buschur sponsered by and sell exidy.
much respect to them however if I were to drop that kind of dough I would go tilton
AMS, DynoFlash, Buschur sponsered by and sell exidy.
much respect to them however if I were to drop that kind of dough I would go tilton
Dec 29, 2005, 01:27 PM
#20
Originally Posted by andenbre
AMS, DynoFlash, Buschur and many others - Exedy
AMS, DynoFlash, Buschur sponsered by and sell exidy.
much respect to them however if I were to drop that kind of dough I would go tilton
AMS, DynoFlash, Buschur sponsered by and sell exidy.
much respect to them however if I were to drop that kind of dough I would go tilton
They are making the choice to run whatever clutch because if their car doesn't finish that pass, or hold up the way it should, it looks bad on their business.
I mean, there's a lot of products I *wouldn't* put on my car - Even If It Was Free...
...and upto this point, weather it's run because it's sponsored or not, it's held up and gotten those cars out of the hole and down the track - consistently.
Dec 29, 2005, 01:32 PM
#21
Originally Posted by 03EVO583
Tilton may not have a "proven pass" in a EVO (because it is a new product), but I know of many Supras, Hondas and others have "proven passes". This does not include all the other non-street performance/sport compact applications that Tilton serves. It is also funny to hear that Exedy sends customers to Tilton because their clutches will not hold the power. Need I say more.
Also, I know of open track/road racing EVOs using Tilton with great sucess. Road racing probably puts more (in different aspects) demands on a clutch than drag racing. In drag racing, the clutch needs to hold power at a 1/4-mile at a time. In road racing, a clutch sees numerous down and up shifts over many miles.
Their clutches are very well proven, it is just a matter time before they make a "prove pass" in a EVO.
Also, I know of open track/road racing EVOs using Tilton with great sucess. Road racing probably puts more (in different aspects) demands on a clutch than drag racing. In drag racing, the clutch needs to hold power at a 1/4-mile at a time. In road racing, a clutch sees numerous down and up shifts over many miles.
Their clutches are very well proven, it is just a matter time before they make a "prove pass" in a EVO.
I agree that Tiltons have held up in Hondas, Supras, Etc - But I have heard the same about RPS and it didn't end up being the case with the Evo.
No disrespect to Tilton - but Im not going to jump on the bandwagon just yet.
Like anyone, I want to see the product do what it's supposed to do before saying its a great product. If you search my past posts I have been very excited to hear about the Tilton and anxious to see it make some passes - but that fact remains, I nor anyone Ive heard from has. Although I agree - it is just a matter of time.
As for Exedy sending their customers to Tilton - If that is indeed the case - well at least they're honest.
Dec 29, 2005, 01:51 PM
#22
Originally Posted by MattGold
I agree that Tiltons have held up in Hondas, Supras, Etc - But I have heard the same about RPS and it didn't end up being the case with the Evo.
No disrespect to Tilton - but Im not going to jump on the bandwagon just yet.
Like anyone, I want to see the product do what it's supposed to do before saying its a great product. If you search my past posts I have been very excited to hear about the Tilton and anxious to see it make some passes - but that fact remains, I nor anyone Ive heard from has. Although I agree - it is just a matter of time.
As for Exedy sending their customers to Tilton - If that is indeed the case - well at least they're honest.
No disrespect to Tilton - but Im not going to jump on the bandwagon just yet.
Like anyone, I want to see the product do what it's supposed to do before saying its a great product. If you search my past posts I have been very excited to hear about the Tilton and anxious to see it make some passes - but that fact remains, I nor anyone Ive heard from has. Although I agree - it is just a matter of time.
As for Exedy sending their customers to Tilton - If that is indeed the case - well at least they're honest.
on the RPS
on the Tiltons. They are new and it is misleading to state that they have not done anything exciting. 2006 is the year of the Tiltons. Lets wait and see. ProccoEvo 717whp 10.4@140.XX which is faster than a lot of sponsored vendors here. There will be others from Central FL in 2006 as well. Can't wait to see the results.
Originally Posted by beavis4g63t
statement is not even remotely true. do some research about the instances of slave failure on the tiltons. the failure happens inside the bell housing which means the trans has to come off to fix the slave. how do i know? because i've personally seen it happen three times. we had dnf's the first stage of pro rally events because of the tilton. putting the slave inside the trans is risky to say the least. the exedy design has plenty of holding power. hell i've seen the stock clutch go 12's dozens of times with the right driver. you can destroy any clutch if you don't know how to drive.
Dec 29, 2005, 03:18 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
on the RPS on the Tiltons. They are new and it is misleading to state that they have not done anything exciting. 2006 is the year of the Tiltons. Lets wait and see. ProccoEvo 717whp 10.4@140.XX which is faster than a lot of sponsored vendors here. There will be others from Central FL in 2006 as well. Can't wait to see the results.You may start with your own research that Tiltons do not use a slave cylinder. In fact the slave is removed altogether in the Tilton HRB setups which are part of every Evo clutch manufactured bt Tilton. We have gone 140+ passes on the stocker including 11.75 & 117.90mph.
most consumers can not afford to have the clutch fail and pay for the trans to be removed to fix it.
equating use of nascar and irl to street products for evo's is confusing. are you trying to say that these to venues have a direct correlation to evo technology?
Dec 29, 2005, 03:21 PM
#25
Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
on the RPS on the Tiltons. They are new and it is misleading to state that they have not done anything exciting. 2006 is the year of the Tiltons. Lets wait and see. ProccoEvo 717whp 10.4@140.XX which is faster than a lot of sponsored vendors here. There will be others from Central FL in 2006 as well. Can't wait to see the results.You may start with your own research that Tiltons do not use a slave cylinder. In fact the slave is removed altogether in the Tilton HRB setups which are part of every Evo clutch manufactured bt Tilton. We have gone 140+ passes on the stocker including 11.75 & 117.90mph.
Dec 29, 2005, 03:22 PM
#26
we have yet to try or see a tilton here im sure its an outstanding piece but we LOVE our tripple carbon. we havent had to change it once.
The two highest HP EVO VIII;s in the world run the exedy tripple carbon
The AMS Shop car and Chris 826 AWHP Black EVO VIII from FL.
Eric
The two highest HP EVO VIII;s in the world run the exedy tripple carbon
The AMS Shop car and Chris 826 AWHP Black EVO VIII from FL.
Eric
Last edited by AutoMotoSports; Dec 29, 2005 at 03:25 PM.
Dec 29, 2005, 03:23 PM
#27
Originally Posted by beavis4g63t
how do the tiltons not have a slave cylinder device? is it magic that causes the t/o bearing to be actuated? what fails inside the bell housing? you going 140 passes on the stock clutch only reinforces my point that the pull design used in the evo is more than adequate when driven intelligently.
most consumers can not afford to have the clutch fail and pay for the trans to be removed to fix it.
equating use of nascar and irl to street products for evo's is confusing. are you trying to say that these to venues have a direct correlation to evo technology?
most consumers can not afford to have the clutch fail and pay for the trans to be removed to fix it.
equating use of nascar and irl to street products for evo's is confusing. are you trying to say that these to venues have a direct correlation to evo technology?
Dec 29, 2005, 04:20 PM
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I am stating that race cars put some of the highest demands on components, and professional race teams demand products that they can count on. Reliability is key in racing, where money and image on the line. A professional race team is not going to risk losing prize money and hurting the reputation of their sponsors by using "risky" parts. You stated that the Tilton release bearing failed at the start of the first stage of a rally... making me think that it was installation related and not qaulity related. Typically, misinstalled items fair fairly quickly. Also, are you sure it was a Tilton release bearing. I am assuming that the car wasn't an EVO, since Tilton just recently released the EVO clutch packages. Tilton doesn't offer too many clutch packages (clutch, flywheel & hydraulic release bearing) for production-based cars. Many of Tilton parts are adapted by customers to a wide variety of applications.
If you don't like IRL or NASCAR example, let use a production-based car. Porsche build about 150-200 of the 996 GT3 RSR cars each year. Tilton supplies the 5.5" clutch, flywheel and hydraulic release bearing for all these cars. Since it's release in 2001, it has been the most sucessful production-based GT-class racecar in endurance racing. I don't think Porsche, who continually refines their cars to the greatest degree every year, would continue using a "risky" product in a car that is used to create an image of performance and reliablity for the Porsche brand. The Le Mans 24 Hour race is probably one of the most demanding test for parts. In this race, the Tilton release bearing sees about 15,000 strokes. Tilton has tested their hydraulic release bearing to over 300,000 stokes before the testing machine broke.
A lot of technology in a street car comes from knowledge gained in racing. The main reason the external slave cylinder is most common in production cars is mostly related to cost. The external slaves are very inexpensive (compared to a Tilton hydraulic release bearing). On the other hand, more new cars are starting to use a hydraulic release bearing in place of external slave cylinders. One of the most recent cars is the new Ford Mustang. I would think Ford logged quite a few miles on the car/hydraulic release bearing before deciding to go that route.
There are other hydraulic release bearings like Tilton on the market. Many of the use an inferior seal design and have leaking problems. Tilton seal design is quite different than the other manufacturers and is very proven (current design has be used for over 15 years).
You are correct the external slave cylinder are easier to service. On the other hand, I believe that a quality hydraulic release bearing (concentric slave cylinder) that is properly designed and installed is as, or more, reliable than the external slave cylinder.
equating use of nascar and irl to street products for evo's is confusing. are you trying to say that these to venues have a direct correlation to evo technology?
If you don't like IRL or NASCAR example, let use a production-based car. Porsche build about 150-200 of the 996 GT3 RSR cars each year. Tilton supplies the 5.5" clutch, flywheel and hydraulic release bearing for all these cars. Since it's release in 2001, it has been the most sucessful production-based GT-class racecar in endurance racing. I don't think Porsche, who continually refines their cars to the greatest degree every year, would continue using a "risky" product in a car that is used to create an image of performance and reliablity for the Porsche brand. The Le Mans 24 Hour race is probably one of the most demanding test for parts. In this race, the Tilton release bearing sees about 15,000 strokes. Tilton has tested their hydraulic release bearing to over 300,000 stokes before the testing machine broke.
A lot of technology in a street car comes from knowledge gained in racing. The main reason the external slave cylinder is most common in production cars is mostly related to cost. The external slaves are very inexpensive (compared to a Tilton hydraulic release bearing). On the other hand, more new cars are starting to use a hydraulic release bearing in place of external slave cylinders. One of the most recent cars is the new Ford Mustang. I would think Ford logged quite a few miles on the car/hydraulic release bearing before deciding to go that route.
There are other hydraulic release bearings like Tilton on the market. Many of the use an inferior seal design and have leaking problems. Tilton seal design is quite different than the other manufacturers and is very proven (current design has be used for over 15 years).
You are correct the external slave cylinder are easier to service. On the other hand, I believe that a quality hydraulic release bearing (concentric slave cylinder) that is properly designed and installed is as, or more, reliable than the external slave cylinder.
Originally Posted by beavis4g63t
equating use of nascar and irl to street products for evo's is confusing. are you trying to say that these to venues have a direct correlation to evo technology?
Dec 30, 2005, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by MattGold
Amen to that.
Please give me light. Im using one right now and Im not happy with the way the gears enters. I thoughted it was the tranny, but i have a new one now rebuilded by turbotrix and the same problem still passing. Yje second and fourth gears dont enter when I rev the car above 8K. ?????/ Now Im confused.
Alex
Dec 30, 2005, 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by EVOVEMR
Which will be the main problems with the RPS? Holding the power? or shifting between gears? What is your opinion about it?
Please give me light. Im using one right now and Im not happy with the way the gears enters. I thoughted it was the tranny, but i have a new one now rebuilded by turbotrix and the same problem still passing. Yje second and fourth gears dont enter when I rev the car above 8K. ?????/ Now Im confused.
Alex
Please give me light. Im using one right now and Im not happy with the way the gears enters. I thoughted it was the tranny, but i have a new one now rebuilded by turbotrix and the same problem still passing. Yje second and fourth gears dont enter when I rev the car above 8K. ?????/ Now Im confused.
Alex
EXEDY is prooven and hope i`ll love it
AMS can tell us all true about it