powerflex or buschur motor mount/bushing?
Jan 1, 2006, 02:58 PM
#1
powerflex or buschur motor mount/bushing?
I want to rid my MR of its engine slop and was thinking about going with a mount this time instead of a dampener. My MR is not only sloppy during on/off throttle situations its notchy going into 2nd, and short of changing the fluid already, I thought the mount might be a good way to start. I already tried clutch adjustments, and all I got it to do was raise my engagement point on the pedal. Now its back to stock height. Anyway - If I was to go with a motor mount I wanted to get some opinions from people who have used either mount. I see the Buschur unit looks like a high-quality single piece unit. The Powerflex unit also looks nice, but seems to be a 2-piece affair. I was wondering if there is any trade-off for durability and/or vibration between the two... like would like Buschurs transmit more vibrations because it was solid, or would it infact absorb more than the two piece? I dont know.. Any input from others would be great.
Jan 1, 2006, 03:02 PM
#2
im in the same boat... the buschur is new, and i dont know of any customers that have them installed yet, people that have the powerflex have nothing but praise for the unit and install, i would sit and wait a few weeks if you are on the fence. Buschur also had the front and rear, where the powerflex is only the front currently
Last edited by akEvo; Jan 1, 2006 at 03:04 PM.
Jan 1, 2006, 04:08 PM
#4
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I knew this debate would come up eventualy and I've been dreading it, quite frankly.
I have nothing but repsect for Mr. Buschur and the products that he offers, so in no way do I intend for anything that I say or do to cast doubt in anyone's mind as to the merits of his products or services.
I will fully admit that David made a post about the fact that he was going to offer replacement bushings before I did, but I want to be perfectly clear in that we did not try to "steal" the idea and run with it to take advantage of the unfortunate situation that he was experiencing in the supply of his bushings from the company that was manufacturing them for him.
Powerflex has offered their motor mount bushings for this application since the introduction of the Evo 6 and the bushings happen to work on later cars up through the Evo 9 so far based on the test fitment that we have done for Powerflex. I even had the Powerflex mount in my posession since 2004, but hadn't yet taken the time to do the test fitment until recently.
With that said, I can only provide the merits of the Powerflex product and allow you all to make your own decisions about whether or not you prefer it over David's bushings.
The Powerflex mount is roughly an 80 durometer polyurethane 2 piece bushing and stainless steel sleeve assembly that is a direct "drop-in" replacement for the OEM front motor mount bushing. We have done an install in as little as about 20 minutes in our shop a few weeks ago. (this is after the removal of the front undertray)
For what it's worth, I have no experience with the Buschur bushings as of yet(aside from their shifter bushings which I love), so I cannot comment on them to any extent nor compare them to the Powerflex bushings at this point.
The OEM bushings are a rubber compound of about a 40-45 durometer rating and even the Ralliart mounts are only rated to about 60-65 in my estimations, which will not limit the movement of the motor enough for some people.
Powerflex DOES offer the rear and even the side motor mount bushings as replacements for the Evo application and we will also offer them to those that want them, but we have just not yet had an opportunity to receive any and test them ourselves yet. They are already on order from Powerflex, but have not been shipped due to the extended holiday that is taken in the automotive industry in all of the UK.
The price of the Powerflex front motor mount bushing is $50 plus shipping from us directly. The rear bushing will sell for about $45 plus shipping from us directly.
We have many dealers/distributors (of which Buschur Racing is on that list) who have the opportunity resell this and many of our other products if they so choose, and some of them MAY be offering these products at somewhat of a discount when purchased together, in combinations with other products, etc., but we cannot directly discount these bushings at all as a strict policy to ensure profitability to our hard working dealers.
As for the argument as to whether or not both the front and rear bushings are necessary, I am perfectly content to use the front by itself for now as it has made a marked improvement with no other modifications being done at the time it was installed. Once I have a chance, I will install the rear as well and I can then comment as to "feel" that installing both bushings together provides.
Good luck with your choice, and let me say, finally, that I have no doubt you would be happy with the Buschur bushings as all of their other products are fantastic.
I have nothing but repsect for Mr. Buschur and the products that he offers, so in no way do I intend for anything that I say or do to cast doubt in anyone's mind as to the merits of his products or services.
I will fully admit that David made a post about the fact that he was going to offer replacement bushings before I did, but I want to be perfectly clear in that we did not try to "steal" the idea and run with it to take advantage of the unfortunate situation that he was experiencing in the supply of his bushings from the company that was manufacturing them for him.
Powerflex has offered their motor mount bushings for this application since the introduction of the Evo 6 and the bushings happen to work on later cars up through the Evo 9 so far based on the test fitment that we have done for Powerflex. I even had the Powerflex mount in my posession since 2004, but hadn't yet taken the time to do the test fitment until recently.
With that said, I can only provide the merits of the Powerflex product and allow you all to make your own decisions about whether or not you prefer it over David's bushings.
The Powerflex mount is roughly an 80 durometer polyurethane 2 piece bushing and stainless steel sleeve assembly that is a direct "drop-in" replacement for the OEM front motor mount bushing. We have done an install in as little as about 20 minutes in our shop a few weeks ago. (this is after the removal of the front undertray)
For what it's worth, I have no experience with the Buschur bushings as of yet(aside from their shifter bushings which I love), so I cannot comment on them to any extent nor compare them to the Powerflex bushings at this point.
The OEM bushings are a rubber compound of about a 40-45 durometer rating and even the Ralliart mounts are only rated to about 60-65 in my estimations, which will not limit the movement of the motor enough for some people.
Powerflex DOES offer the rear and even the side motor mount bushings as replacements for the Evo application and we will also offer them to those that want them, but we have just not yet had an opportunity to receive any and test them ourselves yet. They are already on order from Powerflex, but have not been shipped due to the extended holiday that is taken in the automotive industry in all of the UK.
The price of the Powerflex front motor mount bushing is $50 plus shipping from us directly. The rear bushing will sell for about $45 plus shipping from us directly.
We have many dealers/distributors (of which Buschur Racing is on that list) who have the opportunity resell this and many of our other products if they so choose, and some of them MAY be offering these products at somewhat of a discount when purchased together, in combinations with other products, etc., but we cannot directly discount these bushings at all as a strict policy to ensure profitability to our hard working dealers.
As for the argument as to whether or not both the front and rear bushings are necessary, I am perfectly content to use the front by itself for now as it has made a marked improvement with no other modifications being done at the time it was installed. Once I have a chance, I will install the rear as well and I can then comment as to "feel" that installing both bushings together provides.
Good luck with your choice, and let me say, finally, that I have no doubt you would be happy with the Buschur bushings as all of their other products are fantastic.
Jan 1, 2006, 05:01 PM
#6
No flaming taken Mike
We have been working on these new engine mounts for quite some time. We had a very large machine shop working on them for months and nothing was even finished. I finally contacted a shop that specializes in nothing but urethane. What a blessing it was. From the day I called them to the day I had product in my hand was less than 3 weeks. I have 100 front and 100 rear bushings INSTOCK now.
We are selling ours for $45 each or the set for $85 and if you buy the set the shipping is free.
I would agree with Mike that most guys only need replace the front.
We have been running the first two mounts we had built since mid-summer this year. The rear one is in my RS and the front one is in our black drag EVO.
I'm not one to ask about increased vibrations as I think they are part of performance, so I wouldn't notice regardless.
Our mounts have a chrome moly sleeve in them. Our mounts are black which personally I prefer.
The old mount has to be pressed out and the new pressed in. Once the mount is out of the car the install is fast if you have a press to do it with.
While WE personally don't have a bunch of experience in making engine mounts the company WE had do ours makes mounts for GM, Ford and Chrysler and has been doing so for a long time.
There's my sales pitch
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
We have been working on these new engine mounts for quite some time. We had a very large machine shop working on them for months and nothing was even finished. I finally contacted a shop that specializes in nothing but urethane. What a blessing it was. From the day I called them to the day I had product in my hand was less than 3 weeks. I have 100 front and 100 rear bushings INSTOCK now.
We are selling ours for $45 each or the set for $85 and if you buy the set the shipping is free.
I would agree with Mike that most guys only need replace the front.
We have been running the first two mounts we had built since mid-summer this year. The rear one is in my RS and the front one is in our black drag EVO.
I'm not one to ask about increased vibrations as I think they are part of performance, so I wouldn't notice regardless.
Our mounts have a chrome moly sleeve in them. Our mounts are black which personally I prefer.
The old mount has to be pressed out and the new pressed in. Once the mount is out of the car the install is fast if you have a press to do it with.
While WE personally don't have a bunch of experience in making engine mounts the company WE had do ours makes mounts for GM, Ford and Chrysler and has been doing so for a long time.
There's my sales pitch
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Jan 1, 2006, 05:12 PM
#7
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I ersonaly prefer the feel you have with the mounts in the car - I like the "edge" you have in the steering wheel - its a sports car not a cadilaic - just my two cents - not to mention you can shift a lot faster with mounts in the car as the engine does not flop about like a giant sagging breast - more like a tight fake silicoln breast
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Jan 1, 2006, 05:48 PM
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I got the powerflex in and I love it, very little vibration and shiftng is butter, I am sure the buschur motor mount is great as well though, just personal preference
edit for spelling
edit for spelling
Last edited by Ultimate CC; Jan 1, 2006 at 07:35 PM.
Jan 1, 2006, 06:38 PM
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what is the durometer rating on the buschur mounts???
why will "most applications" only need the front mount as opposed to the both front & rear???
will getting both mounts be more harmful then beneficial on a daily driver???
if added vibrations and difficulty of installation (for the rear) are the only "drawbacks" then my vote would be to go for the Buschur set w/ both front & rear as long as the durometer is around the same rating (not a fan of the purple )
either way Im sure you cant go wrong w/ either product
why will "most applications" only need the front mount as opposed to the both front & rear???
will getting both mounts be more harmful then beneficial on a daily driver???
if added vibrations and difficulty of installation (for the rear) are the only "drawbacks" then my vote would be to go for the Buschur set w/ both front & rear as long as the durometer is around the same rating (not a fan of the purple
)either way Im sure you cant go wrong w/ either product
