My likes and dislikes of the Buschur Motor mounts.
Jan 26, 2006, 11:38 AM
#77
I am fairly certain it is shore A. Interesting scale.
I do have a 75D on my ring here. That thing is solid.
So it appears that according to your scale, Powerflex motor mounts are "HARD" and BR mounts are "EXTRA HARD". This is of the assumption BR's are 90A which by the looks of the scale, they must be.
I do have a 75D on my ring here. That thing is solid.
So it appears that according to your scale, Powerflex motor mounts are "HARD" and BR mounts are "EXTRA HARD". This is of the assumption BR's are 90A which by the looks of the scale, they must be.
Last edited by TTP Engineering; Jan 26, 2006 at 11:41 AM.
Jan 26, 2006, 11:42 AM
#78
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And all the other scales, B, C, M, O, all fall between there. This isn't an exact science. If you do some research on durometer testing there are a large number of papers readily available describing the testing inconsistencies, the nonlinear relationships, and the inability to truly directly compare between different scales.
- Steve
- Steve
Jan 26, 2006, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
I am fairly certain it is shore A. Interesting scale.
I do have a 75D on my ring here. That thing is solid.
So it appears that according to your scale, Powerflex motor mounts are "HARD" and BR mounts are "EXTRA HARD". This is of the assumption BR's are 90A which by the looks of the scale, they must be.
I do have a 75D on my ring here. That thing is solid.
So it appears that according to your scale, Powerflex motor mounts are "HARD" and BR mounts are "EXTRA HARD". This is of the assumption BR's are 90A which by the looks of the scale, they must be.
And FYI, there is a durometer gauge that measures deflection under a fixed load. The way the scale works is the gauge has interchangeable tips, the different shapes tips (point, sphere, flat, etc.) are how the "scale" is determined. A blunter tip will have less penetration under a given load so a material will appear harder on the same gauge with different tips.
The reason there are different tips is because on very soft rubbers a needle tip (Type B, D, M) could all penetrate the same amount, but then if you threw a sperical tip (O, OO, DO, E) could all read differently.
The same thing can be said for hard materials, spherical tips of different sizes might not penetrate at all, but the needle tip could find variances.
Food for thought...
- Steve
Jan 29, 2006, 06:09 AM
#81
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Another potential flaw in TTP-E's "pressure test" is the thickness of material involved. The motor mounts are just over 50mm thick. You may be able to easily bend the 80 durometer piece in the sample with 2 fingers as it appears to be about 2-5mm thick. However, if it were that soft and pliable in mount form, I'd wager that it would be softer than the stock mount.
It is my opinion, after seeing both mounts, that the Buschur is stiffer. However, I don't feel that the difference in stiffness will be that significant. I think both mounts are quality pieces, provided by quality vendors, at very reasonable prices. I think you should make your choice on which mount to buy based on which vendor(s) you prefer to deal with and whether you prefer the black or lavender. I think ease of install is kind of a moot point because if I was doing it, I'd use the same procedure for both:
I'd take the stock mount and the new mount to a place like PepBoys, have them press the old one out and the new one in for about $25, and then go home to wrap it up. I feel that would be a lot quicker for the average guy in his garage versus trying to fight with cutting and burning the old mount out. I'll post up a review with pictures in a seperate post.
It is my opinion, after seeing both mounts, that the Buschur is stiffer. However, I don't feel that the difference in stiffness will be that significant. I think both mounts are quality pieces, provided by quality vendors, at very reasonable prices. I think you should make your choice on which mount to buy based on which vendor(s) you prefer to deal with and whether you prefer the black or lavender. I think ease of install is kind of a moot point because if I was doing it, I'd use the same procedure for both:
I'd take the stock mount and the new mount to a place like PepBoys, have them press the old one out and the new one in for about $25, and then go home to wrap it up. I feel that would be a lot quicker for the average guy in his garage versus trying to fight with cutting and burning the old mount out. I'll post up a review with pictures in a seperate post.
Jan 29, 2006, 06:16 AM
#82
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So I just installed a BR front mount yesterday.
This was an excellent upgrade. Yes, more noise is transmitted through the cabin, but only in certain situations. When I start the car I can hear the starter more loudly. When I am accelerating hard I can hear more engine noise. When I am at a normal cruise I hear no difference. When shifting everything is firmer and more precise which I love. This was a great upgrade. When I do my clutch in the next month or so I will install the rear mount as well and give my impression there too.
BR!
This was an excellent upgrade. Yes, more noise is transmitted through the cabin, but only in certain situations. When I start the car I can hear the starter more loudly. When I am accelerating hard I can hear more engine noise. When I am at a normal cruise I hear no difference. When shifting everything is firmer and more precise which I love. This was a great upgrade. When I do my clutch in the next month or so I will install the rear mount as well and give my impression there too.
BR!
Jan 29, 2006, 06:22 AM
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Excellent exlpanation... objective and clear.. good job.
Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
Thank you. I am glad I am not wasting my time with the extra documentation and someone actually appreciates the extra work.
Voidhawk, great comparison as long as it is accurate. It appears to be.
The powerflex units we have are $47.99+ ship btw.
Voidhawk, great comparison as long as it is accurate. It appears to be.
The powerflex units we have are $47.99+ ship btw.
Jan 29, 2006, 06:29 AM
#84
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The guys in the shop installed the Buschur Racing front mount in my stock-cammed, '03 Evo. There was definitely a noticeable increase in vibration through the steering wheel and pedals, but nothing I find unbearable. I did pay attention to how the car idled before they did the install and my Evo didn't exactly idle like a Cadillac to begin with. I wonder if some people were just so focused on looking for vibration and noise afterward that they psyched themselves out.
Here are some pictures:
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After driving for a week or so, here are my impressions:
Cons:
* More exhaust resonance transmitted into the cabin. Nothing I can't cover with a couple of clicks of the volume knob on the radio. I have a relatively mild exhaust setup: TXS 3" DP, UR 3" straight pipe, HKS HiPower cat-back.
* More vibration through the pedals and steering wheel at idle. Nothing I find unbearable or outrageous compared to stock. It does not feel like it is going to shake anything loose.
Pros:
* Improved low-speed drivability. Less bucking of the engine in first gear and slow speeds where the engine is sort of lugging.
* More direct shift feel.
Overall, I think it is a very worthwhile upgrade for the money. It's a stiffer motor mount - it's not exactly a breakthrough in the automotive world.
If you can't bang the 1-2 shift because of other issues (like me and my stock clutch and flywheel setup), you aren't going to start no-lifting it just because you did a motor mount. If your car is already pretty solidly put together, you aren't going to shake your car apart because you installed a motor mount.
That said, my car is relatively low miles (less than 25k) with very mild modifications (stock clutch and flywheel, stock cams, moderately quiet exhaust).
Here are some pictures:
Pic
Pic
Pic
Pic
Pic
Pic
Pic
After driving for a week or so, here are my impressions:
Cons:
* More exhaust resonance transmitted into the cabin. Nothing I can't cover with a couple of clicks of the volume knob on the radio. I have a relatively mild exhaust setup: TXS 3" DP, UR 3" straight pipe, HKS HiPower cat-back.
* More vibration through the pedals and steering wheel at idle. Nothing I find unbearable or outrageous compared to stock. It does not feel like it is going to shake anything loose.
Pros:
* Improved low-speed drivability. Less bucking of the engine in first gear and slow speeds where the engine is sort of lugging.
* More direct shift feel.
Overall, I think it is a very worthwhile upgrade for the money. It's a stiffer motor mount - it's not exactly a breakthrough in the automotive world.
If you can't bang the 1-2 shift because of other issues (like me and my stock clutch and flywheel setup), you aren't going to start no-lifting it just because you did a motor mount. If your car is already pretty solidly put together, you aren't going to shake your car apart because you installed a motor mount. That said, my car is relatively low miles (less than 25k) with very mild modifications (stock clutch and flywheel, stock cams, moderately quiet exhaust).
Jan 29, 2006, 07:39 AM
#86
We put a bunch of parts on Trent EVO yesterday. 20g-9, custom header I built, SS coated 02 housing, 280 cams, 680's and a custom downpipe etc. While we were at it we threw the front engine mount in the car.
Just for the hell of it I wanted to see if our mounts could be installed with normal tools. First thing I had to do was figure out how to get the old one out. I simply took a drill and drilled a couple holes through the thin part of the rubber. Then I put our sawzall in there and cut through the factory insert and metal. (not the mount itself) Then I took a chisel and hammer and hit it where I cut. It actually came out easier than trying to put it all in a press. So far so good. Then I put the new parts in our smallest bench vise and started pressing them together. The toughest part is getting it in straight but it was only a minute or two and it was going in. I honestly got tired of twisting on the bench vise as it is a tight fit and I then through it into the press and finished it off.
The point is these can be done with some simple tools and no press. Take the old one out was actually easier for ME the way I did it. Putting the new one in was effortless with a press compared to the vise. The vise will work but I'm lazy.
Trent's car is now a full Buschur Racing Stage 4 with 280's, race FMIC, 680's and the 20G. It is going to be interesting to see what it makes for power this week. Engine, head, throttle body and intake are all stock and have never been removed. Car has about 25,000 miles on it.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Just for the hell of it I wanted to see if our mounts could be installed with normal tools. First thing I had to do was figure out how to get the old one out. I simply took a drill and drilled a couple holes through the thin part of the rubber. Then I put our sawzall in there and cut through the factory insert and metal. (not the mount itself) Then I took a chisel and hammer and hit it where I cut. It actually came out easier than trying to put it all in a press. So far so good. Then I put the new parts in our smallest bench vise and started pressing them together. The toughest part is getting it in straight but it was only a minute or two and it was going in. I honestly got tired of twisting on the bench vise as it is a tight fit and I then through it into the press and finished it off.
The point is these can be done with some simple tools and no press. Take the old one out was actually easier for ME the way I did it. Putting the new one in was effortless with a press compared to the vise. The vise will work but I'm lazy.
Trent's car is now a full Buschur Racing Stage 4 with 280's, race FMIC, 680's and the 20G. It is going to be interesting to see what it makes for power this week. Engine, head, throttle body and intake are all stock and have never been removed. Car has about 25,000 miles on it.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Jan 29, 2006, 07:42 AM
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I used the chisel/cut method to get my old mount out, but to get the new one in I put the mount in the freezer while I was getting the stock mount out. After I had the stock mount out I got the new mount out of the freezer, sprayed it down with WD-40, aligned it and hit it 3 times with a hammer and bam, it was in, couldn't get any easier than that.
- Steve
- Steve
Jan 29, 2006, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
We put a bunch of parts on Trent EVO yesterday. 20g-9, custom header I built, SS coated 02 housing, 280 cams, 680's and a custom downpipe etc. While we were at it we threw the front engine mount in the car.
Just for the hell of it I wanted to see if our mounts could be installed with normal tools. First thing I had to do was figure out how to get the old one out. I simply took a drill and drilled a couple holes through the thin part of the rubber. Then I put our sawzall in there and cut through the factory insert and metal. (not the mount itself) Then I took a chisel and hammer and hit it where I cut. It actually came out easier than trying to put it all in a press. So far so good. Then I put the new parts in our smallest bench vise and started pressing them together. The toughest part is getting it in straight but it was only a minute or two and it was going in. I honestly got tired of twisting on the bench vise as it is a tight fit and I then through it into the press and finished it off.
The point is these can be done with some simple tools and no press. Take the old one out was actually easier for ME the way I did it. Putting the new one in was effortless with a press compared to the vise. The vise will work but I'm lazy.
Trent's car is now a full Buschur Racing Stage 4 with 280's, race FMIC, 680's and the 20G. It is going to be interesting to see what it makes for power this week. Engine, head, throttle body and intake are all stock and have never been removed. Car has about 25,000 miles on it.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Just for the hell of it I wanted to see if our mounts could be installed with normal tools. First thing I had to do was figure out how to get the old one out. I simply took a drill and drilled a couple holes through the thin part of the rubber. Then I put our sawzall in there and cut through the factory insert and metal. (not the mount itself) Then I took a chisel and hammer and hit it where I cut. It actually came out easier than trying to put it all in a press. So far so good. Then I put the new parts in our smallest bench vise and started pressing them together. The toughest part is getting it in straight but it was only a minute or two and it was going in. I honestly got tired of twisting on the bench vise as it is a tight fit and I then through it into the press and finished it off.
The point is these can be done with some simple tools and no press. Take the old one out was actually easier for ME the way I did it. Putting the new one in was effortless with a press compared to the vise. The vise will work but I'm lazy.
Trent's car is now a full Buschur Racing Stage 4 with 280's, race FMIC, 680's and the 20G. It is going to be interesting to see what it makes for power this week. Engine, head, throttle body and intake are all stock and have never been removed. Car has about 25,000 miles on it.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
It is running a little on the rich side. I have a little vibration from time to time at idle, but that might be gone when Big Al puts his tune on it. But the dam thing shifts great There was a damper on the car but that is for sale now. Contact Jrod if anybody wants it, i would say buy the bushings. I love those cams, car pulls hard up top
and still have great mid range. Dave glad you talked me out of the 35r for now. This 20g is bad ***
Jan 29, 2006, 08:58 AM
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Maybe Ill get TTP's mount and put it in my 272 cammed EVO and do a review on it. I want TTP's because it is softer. I dont want all that extra vibration but I do want better shifting and less bucking.
Jan 29, 2006, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
Thanks for the input Jack. I would like to see however cammed Evo with a review. I suspect that a car that does not vibrate much before (due to stock cams) will also not vibrate much after.
Good review for a stock cam application however.
Good review for a stock cam application however.
I think that will be true with either mount. I'll be able to do a back-to-back comparison, so to speak, in a couple of weeks when the cams go in.
The first owner of my car had an HKS downpipe, stock cat, and HKS HiPower after-cat exhaust on it. Stock otherwise. He apparently decided it was too loud and put Dynamat in the trunk. If you are that kind of person, I'd suggest skipping the motor mount.
If you are the kind of guy that is okay with more noise from his exhaust as long as it performs, go for it.