David Buschur

iTrader: (53)

Be warned, this is going to be a long post

What a weekend. I am so freaking tired. I was in bed until 10 am today, that's a first.

Not sure where to start. This is a weekend I have been looking forward to as I knew we were going to finally get some "basic" packages on the dyno with the 20g's on them and a flash for tuning.

The weekend was nuts. I have to thank everyone that came for their patience as there were times we were 3-4 hours behind. Thank you all for being cool and just hanging out.

Low moments of the weekend.

There were a few cars that came through that just did not make any power. One in particular was a very nice EVO8 with another companies Stage 1 on it. There was something definetely not right as this other company builds very good parts. The car only made 218 whp, that's stock numbers. He was not the only one though. There were two "stage 1" cars that just were horrible. No signs of knock, boost was fine on both. No reason without a good check over of the cars which we didn't have time for. No boost leaks were apparent. I hate seeing that as it leaves very disapointed people in the end.

Justchil was there. He dyno'd at our shop last year and made about 290 whp on the stock turbo. Since then he added our 20G. Same power as last year. This really sucked. We threw in 5 gallons of 100 octane on top of about 5 gallons of 93 and turned up the boost. The car woke up and put down 320. It seems as though the 20G, when using the flash for the tuning loves to have the boost higher. The gains with the turbo are much better at higher boost levels than the stock turbo. I don't like when the results are like this.

One of the first cars we did on Friday had a "stage 1" kit on it, mixmatch of other companies parts (when you see me type "stage 1" in quotes that means it is not our parts, just a basic copy of what we call our Stage 1. Anyway, we put on our Stage 2 kit, ported manifold and his DNP 02 housing too. The car had a "V" exhaust on it (that's what he said it was). The car made crappy power on 240 whp. After looking at exhaust the 2' long resonator, cat and a reducer that were in it I was pretty sure where the other power was. He took our catback with him but we didn't have time to install it to see back-to-back gains. Looking forward to dyno'ing it again.

Anyway, it is tough for me to see someone spend their hard earned money and not get good gains or power. It makes me speechless if I can't find a reason that is fairly obvious. Sucks being the bearer of bad news.

Highlights:

Girlie brought here EVO9 in with our Stage 1 kit, car made 280 whp with a high flow cat on it. Excellent. Most power of an EVO9 on our dyno to date.

Gary brought in his EVO8. This car was tuned last year by Al on the street and was then sold to Gary. It is a BR Stage 4 with 272 cams. Nothing else. The tune was so good that it was the only car we did not re-tune. Anyone that says street tuning isn't good.........well let's just say there were plenty of witnesses to a perfectly flat 11.4 AFR, boost at 20 psi and 280 whp.

My brothers car. He just picked up a 2003 EVO, theft recovery of sorts. Car has our Stage 4, 272 cams, original Deluxe FMIC, ported manifold, 20g-9, ported 02 housing. He made 303 whp. He wanted a mild EVO to drive every single day and ended up with one that is actually very strong. Peak boost was 21-22 psi.

Trent's car. He bought it used and put our Stage 4 kit on it. We used the race FMIC and 280 cams. He made 312 whp on straight pump gas and 330 on race gas.

The Vishnu Stage 2 WRX. With no increase of boost pressure Al was able to gain 32 whp from just tuning on the car. The only regret was it was the last car we did on Sunday and there weren't a bunch of people hanging around by then. The snowstorm we dyno'd through had gotten fairly messy. We went from 186 whp to 218.

I am having memory loss right now for some reason but we had another 20g-9 on the dyno and it made 330 whp also. This was the strongest one of the weekend and surprisingly had a 272/264 cam in the car or maybe it was 264's only, too many cars I can't remember.

Another EVO9 that was there, Lee's, was really nice. Body kit, gauges, custom interior. Also made good power at 290. Stock cams, 20g-9 and the remainder of our Stage 3 kit. This was with our Deluxe FMIC on it and pump gas. The car would have made more power but our muffler had been replaced with someone else's for the larger tip look. When I tried to put our AFR probe in the tip it hit something. When I looked inside I couldn't believe how small the muffler was internally. I did Al's pop can test to find a pop can would not even go inside the muffler. This means the ID of the muffler is less than 2.5". Very disapointed in seeing that as the company is high end and the muffler was carbon fiber.

Some other tidbits.

As hard as we tried to get a the 280's to run what I would call perfectly with the flash it didnt' happen. I want to point out that I feel the HKS 272's are as big as you are going to be able to go with the flash for tuning and have good driveability.

I will be extremely busy this week but I want to do an experiment as soon as I can. Trent's car I feel should make a lot more power than it is. I am going to throw an AEM EMS on it and then dyno the car again. I'm not sure where the power is hiding with the 20g-9 on that car but I am hoping to find it with the EMS. Trent has the 280 cams in the car and we can't keep it from stalling so he wants to switch to the EMS anyway.

Something else I want to point out. Making 290 whp on our dyno with an EVO8 is tough to do. Making 300 whp is even tougher and we have now had only 5, maybe 6, cars crack 300 whp with any type of "stock" turbo, this includes the 20G. Of the 5 or 6 cars that have done it 4 of those were 20g's. My car and Philly EVO's have made 400/444 and 365/375, both using the EMS for tuning on them. Philly's car made 305 on pump and then had a 60 whp gain on race. This is something we could not re-produce with the flash on race gas this weekend. One was a Stock turbo'd EVO8 with a flash and no port work on anything. I am just guessing on the 6th as I can't even remember another car doing it.

There has also only been a few that have broken into the 290 range. Andy's is one but regretfully made 290 on the stock turbo and now only 290 on the 20g, so that sucks and I would like to take some time to figure out why the increase was so low.

The torque curves with the 20g is something worth mentioning and may be why the power seems so high to everyone driving them. The torque at 20-23 psi of boost looks like a flat table top for about 3,000 rpm. I will post some sheets this week for everyone to view.

Also so we are all clear. The flash is by far the most economical, highest power producing method I have seen for any car in our Stages 1-4. The driveability is better than stock with no issues what-so-ever. Look at Girlie's car with our Stage 1, highflow cat and flash, this is a $1350 package that layed down 280 whp! Gary's car with a basic Stage 4 kit and flash at 280 whp, so many others.

With two cars in a row making almost identical power on the 20g with the EMS I am just wondering if at that point there is some serious power to be unleashed with the EMS. I am going to find out.

It was a great, very tiring weekend.

David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com

Invoice EVO

iTrader: (32)

I think the EMS is going to help put down some good numbers with the 20g. I'm curios to see what it will do against my numbers .

We'll be seeing you guys tomorrow .

Pete

smokedmustang

iTrader: (7)

I guess I am out for a tune with my 280's. Lets NOT start this into a "bash-fest" even though he said "stage 1" it can be ANYONE! Lets keep this thread "clean".

I want to see more numbers, graphs if you got them. Thanks for the write up David, keep up the good work. Looks like everyone had a great time!!!! Thats how it should be.

ExViTermini

iTrader: (25)

I"m interested to see they dyno graphs....I'm trying to figure out my next route in the turbo world and would like to stay with something more economical and power producing. So far I'm not so sure the 20g is my route...but I'd still like to see more info before I make my decision.

justchil

iTrader: (44)

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shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Dave,
Have you confirmed that he was tuned by us yet? I'm not trying to stir up sh$t... just asking
-shiv

Jim_Patterson

iTrader: (13)

The gains from the 20g may not be great on the dyno, but im guessing it makes for a very good street driven car with the torque.

Sounds like a fun weekend, sometimes i wished i lived in that area.

justchil

iTrader: (44)

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Knightracer

iTrader: (16)

Nice numbers, hopefully I can get my car up there this week for a tune.

Jim_Patterson

iTrader: (13)

Yep peak power isnt everything. It might be a turbo that just prooves itself at the track better.

Malick67

iTrader: (3)

264 cams actually

EVO8LTW

iTrader: (41)

Dave,

Al mentioned in another thread in his forum that justchil's numbers may have been about the same as before because you calibrate the dyno differently than you used to (something about holding the car at a constant speed to calibrate it rather than using a tach signal?), which he believes causes more recent dyno results on your dyno to be even lower than those that you had last year. He said that he also believed that the numbers given out for this weekend were uncorrected.

Can you elaborate on either of those points?

midwestmonster

iTrader: (9)

Interesting thread. I guess my question is to the people with the 20g-9. Are you guys happy with it. I'm still trying to decide if I should get it or not. Thanks.

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

David, a few comments I would like to add in

First thanks to the whole team at Buschur Racing for a very professional and positive experience this weekend. Buschur Racing is the best dyno facility I have seen in all my travels.

I agree with David on the furstration of seeing customers waste time and money on getting something tuned that is not up to potential.

I encourage ALL customers to make a post in these forums asking for advice on your mod set up or call me to review prior to tuning. Trying to get decent power on a car with a restirictive exhuast that goes down below 2.5 " inside the muffler "HKS' necks down at the cat of has some giant resonator "V" brand is going to be hard.

Also, trying to make power with mechanical issues on your car is nearly impossible

Some of the problems identified this weekend - which are common were :

Boost leaks

Leaking bov

Broken fuel pressure regulator

Improperly adjusted wastegate actuator

The main thrust is to try and have the car checked out mechanically before you go to get tuned as it is impossible to get a good tune when these kind of mechanical problems exist.

Now, as for David's comments about the power on the 20-G IX turbo, on this point I disagree with him - which is a rare point of disagreement

As a tuner, I have to tune car cars that come as the customer's have configured them and with the parts set ups that the customer has installed.

I would say that Dan Buschur's car typifies what the 20 G IX turbo is really capable of. His car was a staight pump gas tune with 20 - 22 psi of boost MAX and the tune was intentionally conservative. Data logs showed the knock nearly totally absent. This car has a TQ curve which was very imprssive and only a 50 - 60 TQ loss from peak to 7,000 rpms which is impossible on the Evo 8 stock turbo. Again, Dan wisely requested a very conseravtive and safe tune and with a 11. 1 / 1 a/f and very safe timing numbers this is a very good amount of power on this dyno. I feel that NO tuning solution is going to make significantly more power with the same tuning parameters.

As for the other cars which were tuned, with race gas - NONE of them recieved a FULL RACE ONLY tune.

The so called "dual stage" flash incorporates the ability to raise the boost higher and make more power when you go to the track, however, it is not going to make as much power as a more agressive "race only" tuning calibration which has a very lean a/f and more ignition timing. The concept of the "dual stage" flash is to have a totally safe daily driver that is 100% bullet proof which you can pick up an additional safe 30 whp by raising the boost. It is not intended and never was intended to substitute or compete with a RACE ONLY race gas mapping.

As with many things is life a "dual stage" is a compromise which trades off some max power for ease of operation and lower cost with total 100% reliability.

I can honestly say that out of the remaining cars there was no accurate 20G - IX test as they all had problems of one sort of another

The red car which made 300 on pump and 330 on race gas only had 264 cams and had an effective 97 octane and was tuned at 11.1/ 1 a/f and pump gas timing figures. There was another 25 - 30 whp on the table with that tune. Also - as noted his car was having some blow by as the breather filter was misting significantly. A compression test / leak down test was not able to be conducted due to time limitations. I personally have not observed many 330 whp 2.0 L cars on the Br dyno - I think this is a good amount of power for the mods, fuel and tuning parameters. Certainly, this car would run well into the low 11.s with this set up.

The Evo 9 with the IX-20 G has stock cams, and a tiny 2.5 " inside HKS muffler. the 290 or so it made on the dyno really do not show the way the car drove - amazing, but the fact is the car could have made a lot more power with a decent muffler and cams. Despite this, driving the car, it was wild the TQ was unreal and it was a very fast street car.

Trent's car never was operating properly and had we were unable to complete the tune due to time limitations. It would be hard to draw any generlizations about its power level with the reflash as the tune was never completed. Also, his set up was also a so called "dual stage" pump gas and race gas tune.

Finally, the car with alcohol injection and the 20G - IX turbo clearly had an improperly adjusted wastegate arm as it was spooling up almost 800 rpms too late.

In conlusion, I liked the power on Dan's striaight pump gas tuned stage 4 with evo IX 20 g. It had the best power band I have seen to date on any evo and 303 whp is to me a very impressive power level with a safe, rational tune on the Buschur Mustang dyno. Sadly, I do not have a copy of that dyno sheet, it is very impressive to me. I think that 303 whp would equal about 355 - 365 Dyno Jet whp with a more familar dyno and would also yield a easy 11 second car on pump gas with a nice safe knock free conservative tune. To me, this is a very good showing for the turbo and based upon my test drives on IX 20G turbos to date they are a really amazing addition to any evo. The peak numbers don't give you the entire story as the area under the curve is vastly improved with this turbo.

Sadly the other cars this particular weekend were not configured to allow stunning dyno numers, however I feel the turbo made a very good showing.

Thanks to all the customers who drove down from all over the east coast for comming and for your patience when we were running behind schedule.

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

Shiv - I was not going to comment on this situation at all as I have no time for this drama BS

However, as you have again pressed the issue - after claiming that you did not tune the car in a previous thread . . . . here is what i have determined

The original owner purcahsed your complete Vishnu Stage II WRX kit from you and you installed the above tune in the car in May of 2003 as a base flash with your kit

The original owner was disatisfied with the car and sold it to the current owner "AS IS" and nothing has been changed to it

Neither of the two owners had delta dash and NO tuning or parts changes were made to your tune

With no boost changes - same boost "pill" and 16 psi I was able to increase his power by over 30 whp with simple tuning changes.

With more boost he could have made more power, however there was no time left to start playing with boost pills. The customer has a EBC in his future plans.

I feel the exhuast was very restrictive. The power on this kit was lover than I would expect with a VF 30 turbo and top mount ic upgrade.

h