Call out to Buschur for a TD06 20G
Mar 1, 2006, 12:14 PM
#1
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Call out to Buschur for a TD06 20G
I was just curious if you guys are considering doing one of these and offering it for the Evo. Thanks in advance
P.S. - Thanks for my new Bullet muffler rear section. I LOVE it.
P.S. - Thanks for my new Bullet muffler rear section. I LOVE it.
Mar 1, 2006, 12:25 PM
#2
I'm not doing a 20G that uses the TD06 turbine wheel. In the DSM days the truth is there was never a TD06 20G turbo that ran in the 10's without nitrous. It just wasn't a very popular turbo. The TD05H-20g that we developed back in the day had tremendous results and was much more popular. Tym ran 10.98 on it, John ran 10.72 at 131 mph on it. My current RS EVO has run 11.30 at 124 mph on it at only 22-23 psi of boost. My RS was making only 330 whp then and is now making 410 whp and 450 ft lbs of torque with our TD05H 20G on it.
The difference in the two turbos is the larger turbine wheel in the TD06 and the larger turbine housing. I personally never ran one or tried one but have had many customers come through here with them and never was overly impressed.
The other problem is putting the TD06 exhaust wheel into the EVO turbine housing isn't possible, there isn't enough material there to machine it out and make it work.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The difference in the two turbos is the larger turbine wheel in the TD06 and the larger turbine housing. I personally never ran one or tried one but have had many customers come through here with them and never was overly impressed.
The other problem is putting the TD06 exhaust wheel into the EVO turbine housing isn't possible, there isn't enough material there to machine it out and make it work.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Mar 1, 2006, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by VTECH8TR
This is a good question.
My question ... and I mean absolutely no offense to anyone by it ... is what is really the difference between the 20G-9 from BR and the so-called 'real 20G' being discussed in the other threads? The turbine is the TD-05 in both cases right? And the compressor wheel is equivalent to the 20G ... so in my extreme naivety, I just don't get it?
Is it the housings, or center cartridge? What else is there?edit: sorry ... reading comprehension ... I see now they are saying it's a TD-06 turbine.
Last edited by joshd; Mar 1, 2006 at 02:04 PM.
Mar 1, 2006, 02:15 PM
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Thanks for the response to my question Dave, but I worded my question wrong. I was wanting to know if you planned on doing a TD06 20G turbo kit for the Evo something maybe similar to the one TT ( turbotrix) is now doing. Sorry for the confusion
Mar 1, 2006, 02:55 PM
#6
I see now.
The "real" 20G as it is being called and actually rightfully so as a 20G from Mitsubishi is a truck turbo that uses the TD06 compressor cover, 20G compressor wheel, TD06 turbine wheel and a larger turbine housing.
The question is can I build one. Well, sure I can build them. Not sure that I want to build them as I said, they never worked that great from anything I saw.
The 20G turbo we offer for the EVO is a direct replacement, stock appearing turbo. Bolts to the stock manifold, 02 housing etc. The full TD06 20G requires a header or manifold to be built, new 02 housing etc. Not a big deal especially considering the fact that the manifold that we designed and cast was built to accept all the DSM turbos we used in the past. It is actually cast to accept that style turbine housing. If you wanted a TD06 20G turbo that would be easy for us to build. We even have 02 housings done. The problem is the turbo itself is not that cheap for what it is.
We offer full ball bearing Garrett GT technology turbo kits already and they are only $2995 for the complete kit. The kit includes:
Cast manifold, ceramic coated.
Any GT30 or GT35 series ball bearing turbo charger
Integrated V band turbine housing
Tial 44 mm v band wastegate
V band 304 stainless steel 02 housing
Oil feed and return lines
304 stainless steel v band dump tube for the wastegate
This is a super high quality kit. Our GT35R kit like this ran 10.12 at 141 mph on our EVO.
The manifold flows great, makes great power, will not break and is ceramic coated so it won't rust. Also accepts the stock heat shield or our polished SS heat shield.
I could build a TD06 20G turbo kit just like the above description but would still have to sell it at the same $2995. Why someone would choose to use a TD06 20G over a GT3071, GT3076, GT3082, GT35 etc. etc., spend the same amount of money (or more with someone else's kit) doesn't make sense. Why buy old technology if you are doing a turbo kit and spend the same or more than the $2995 we sell our complete kits at?
If you are going to change the car and get away from the stock look of the turbo you may as well use a much better turbo like the GT series turbos.
I realize there are some guys that are stuck or sold on the old turbos from the DSM's as there are a lot of DSM owners that went to EVO's (like me). For those of you, as I said, the manifold that we cast bolts up to any of the old DSM stuff that uses a DSM turbine housing. TD05 or TD06's. I can build turbo kits using the TD06 20g, FP Reds, FP greens etc . Very simple for us, that's what our kit was put together to do in the first place, back in 2003.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
The "real" 20G as it is being called and actually rightfully so as a 20G from Mitsubishi is a truck turbo that uses the TD06 compressor cover, 20G compressor wheel, TD06 turbine wheel and a larger turbine housing.
The question is can I build one. Well, sure I can build them. Not sure that I want to build them as I said, they never worked that great from anything I saw.
The 20G turbo we offer for the EVO is a direct replacement, stock appearing turbo. Bolts to the stock manifold, 02 housing etc. The full TD06 20G requires a header or manifold to be built, new 02 housing etc. Not a big deal especially considering the fact that the manifold that we designed and cast was built to accept all the DSM turbos we used in the past. It is actually cast to accept that style turbine housing. If you wanted a TD06 20G turbo that would be easy for us to build. We even have 02 housings done. The problem is the turbo itself is not that cheap for what it is.
We offer full ball bearing Garrett GT technology turbo kits already and they are only $2995 for the complete kit. The kit includes:
Cast manifold, ceramic coated.
Any GT30 or GT35 series ball bearing turbo charger
Integrated V band turbine housing
Tial 44 mm v band wastegate
V band 304 stainless steel 02 housing
Oil feed and return lines
304 stainless steel v band dump tube for the wastegate
This is a super high quality kit. Our GT35R kit like this ran 10.12 at 141 mph on our EVO.
The manifold flows great, makes great power, will not break and is ceramic coated so it won't rust. Also accepts the stock heat shield or our polished SS heat shield.
I could build a TD06 20G turbo kit just like the above description but would still have to sell it at the same $2995. Why someone would choose to use a TD06 20G over a GT3071, GT3076, GT3082, GT35 etc. etc., spend the same amount of money (or more with someone else's kit) doesn't make sense. Why buy old technology if you are doing a turbo kit and spend the same or more than the $2995 we sell our complete kits at?
If you are going to change the car and get away from the stock look of the turbo you may as well use a much better turbo like the GT series turbos.
I realize there are some guys that are stuck or sold on the old turbos from the DSM's as there are a lot of DSM owners that went to EVO's (like me). For those of you, as I said, the manifold that we cast bolts up to any of the old DSM stuff that uses a DSM turbine housing. TD05 or TD06's. I can build turbo kits using the TD06 20g, FP Reds, FP greens etc . Very simple for us, that's what our kit was put together to do in the first place, back in 2003.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Mar 1, 2006, 03:33 PM
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Excellent, thanks for answering both questions in one fell swoop!
I would have to agree about going with a Garrett GT series turbo over the old school 20G if the price is the same ...
I would have to agree about going with a Garrett GT series turbo over the old school 20G if the price is the same ...
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Mar 1, 2006, 04:40 PM
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Thank you for your explanation Dave. It has definately given me something to think about and for the money I think "joshd" was right. I would go with some new technology if I was going to spend that kind of money. I will be giving you a call as soon as my tax check comes to put a 30 or 35 kit on order. 
Mar 1, 2006, 06:24 PM
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dave i was on the ropes a while back about putting together a kit with the fp3065. how do you think that would stack up power and spool vs a gt35 or gt3040r?
Mar 1, 2006, 06:35 PM
#11
Well I have some great news. The FP 3065 is a direct bolt on to our manifold. As a matter of fact we shipped one today to a customer and have another at our shop, Jarrod's car actually, that is going to get tuned here shortly.
As I said, it is simple kit for us to put together as this is what we designed our manifold for.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
As I said, it is simple kit for us to put together as this is what we designed our manifold for.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Mar 1, 2006, 06:46 PM
#12
Originally Posted by LuxuryBroker
dave i was on the ropes a while back about putting together a kit with the fp3065. how do you think that would stack up power and spool vs a gt35 or gt3040r?
Mar 1, 2006, 07:23 PM
#14
I haven't tested it yet, give me a week or so. The EVO 9 is going to need some parts before a turbo upgrade. Like our Stage 4 kit first, then a turbo.
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
David Buschur
www.buschurracing.com
Mar 1, 2006, 07:25 PM
#15
I am going to have to agree with dave it doesn't make sense to make a 2995 turbo kit that uses a dsm 20g turbo. If 20g performance is what you are after then the 20g/9 makes more sense for the money spent.
But for arguement sake and just good info, the 20g turbo kit that turbotrix just built is laying down some extremely impressive numbers for the mods that car has. I believe this turbo is going to outperform a typical 20g/9 turbo hands down. For the mods that car has dave would not even be recommending a 20g/9. Yet that car layed down 381whp at 18psi, and 397whp at 22psi on straight 93 octane. Lets wait and see what it does on higher boost and better fuel.
The turbo they used to do this is a very little used combo because the clipped tdo5/ 20g that dave had success with was 1000 times more popular and considerably cheaper to build. My question to dave would be which tdo6 combo did you test? There are two tdo6 wheels. the tdo6 and tdo6h. And which housing did you put it in? There are three common housings to choose from. 6cm,7cm,and 8cm. It could be that the reason that dave never saw a td06 turbo outperform a tdo5/20g is because he never saw the right combo tried. Both turbotrix and FP both believe the td06h/20g is the 20g of 20gs.
Also of note is there is a "new 20g" wheel that has not yet hit america.
Just recieved a couple of td06h 20gs from japan. The 20g blade has been revised. It now has the same lightweight hub as evo16g turbos. The blade tips are no longer swept either, they are straight (makes it easy to tell which one you have). Smaller hub means more air can pass, and faster response. Good stuff.
The three wheels pictured are garrett 60trim, old 20g (60trim), new 20g, evo 16g. The blades on the new 20g are virtually the same size as a garrett 60trim. The garrett wheel is built like a cadillac with a huge hub. The new 20g is the porsche with the lightweight performance hub.
There is also a pic comparring the tdo5 and tdo6h wheels. huge difference in flow.
http://photobucket.com/albums/f397/lancerman/?sc=1
But for arguement sake and just good info, the 20g turbo kit that turbotrix just built is laying down some extremely impressive numbers for the mods that car has. I believe this turbo is going to outperform a typical 20g/9 turbo hands down. For the mods that car has dave would not even be recommending a 20g/9. Yet that car layed down 381whp at 18psi, and 397whp at 22psi on straight 93 octane. Lets wait and see what it does on higher boost and better fuel.
The turbo they used to do this is a very little used combo because the clipped tdo5/ 20g that dave had success with was 1000 times more popular and considerably cheaper to build. My question to dave would be which tdo6 combo did you test? There are two tdo6 wheels. the tdo6 and tdo6h. And which housing did you put it in? There are three common housings to choose from. 6cm,7cm,and 8cm. It could be that the reason that dave never saw a td06 turbo outperform a tdo5/20g is because he never saw the right combo tried. Both turbotrix and FP both believe the td06h/20g is the 20g of 20gs.
Also of note is there is a "new 20g" wheel that has not yet hit america.
Just recieved a couple of td06h 20gs from japan. The 20g blade has been revised. It now has the same lightweight hub as evo16g turbos. The blade tips are no longer swept either, they are straight (makes it easy to tell which one you have). Smaller hub means more air can pass, and faster response. Good stuff.
The three wheels pictured are garrett 60trim, old 20g (60trim), new 20g, evo 16g. The blades on the new 20g are virtually the same size as a garrett 60trim. The garrett wheel is built like a cadillac with a huge hub. The new 20g is the porsche with the lightweight performance hub.
There is also a pic comparring the tdo5 and tdo6h wheels. huge difference in flow.
http://photobucket.com/albums/f397/lancerman/?sc=1
Last edited by 94AWDcoupe; Mar 2, 2006 at 03:48 AM. Reason: Fixed the link