Drop in filters?
#17
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Yep, went through this on my Lightning. Stock box with K&N had better throttle response and power than 12" K&N open cone, with no change to boost levels. Dyno proving is harder, as engine heatsoak on the dyno will exaggerate the bad effects of the open filter, but even in normal use it is a noticeable difference.
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Originally posted by EvoJimbo
This will finalize my decision to either go with the HKS super racing sunction, the monster cf air box or the ARC aluminum intake box. ANy advice would be greatly appreciated!
This will finalize my decision to either go with the HKS super racing sunction, the monster cf air box or the ARC aluminum intake box. ANy advice would be greatly appreciated!
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I wouldn't worry about rain at all in an open filter, even if you had the Evo (and its hood vent).
What needs to be understood is that while moving, the engine bay has a lot of "cool" air flowing into it at all times. Other benefits of even a SRI is that you get MORE air into the engine. The theory here is that the tradeoff between air volume and air temperature (and consequently the amount of oxygen entering the engine) is in your favor.
As far as drop in filter go, I definitely think they are worth it:
1. Though expensive at first, replacing the filter will set you back at least $15 bucks each time, as opposed to biting the bullet and paying about $60 once for the filter and cleaning kit.
2. You can clean the thing whenever you want.
3. There is documented evidence that a K&N replacement flows more air than a OEM filter, and therefor you will have better mpg and hp (more noticable mpg than hp).
What needs to be understood is that while moving, the engine bay has a lot of "cool" air flowing into it at all times. Other benefits of even a SRI is that you get MORE air into the engine. The theory here is that the tradeoff between air volume and air temperature (and consequently the amount of oxygen entering the engine) is in your favor.
As far as drop in filter go, I definitely think they are worth it:
1. Though expensive at first, replacing the filter will set you back at least $15 bucks each time, as opposed to biting the bullet and paying about $60 once for the filter and cleaning kit.
2. You can clean the thing whenever you want.
3. There is documented evidence that a K&N replacement flows more air than a OEM filter, and therefor you will have better mpg and hp (more noticable mpg than hp).
#23
Originally posted by Obsoleteasian
Well honestly. I think the drop ins are nothing great. I have always used short rams or cold airs, because it doesn't look like that great a difference. On the other side has anyone installed an intake worthy of buying for the evo, or are we still waiting on that... Most things I see aimed at are ecu's and exhaust. Maybe someone knows the physical conditions of the current air intake box, is it to restrictative or is it fine where it doesn't need to be upgraded. Any vendors care to share the wealth?
Well honestly. I think the drop ins are nothing great. I have always used short rams or cold airs, because it doesn't look like that great a difference. On the other side has anyone installed an intake worthy of buying for the evo, or are we still waiting on that... Most things I see aimed at are ecu's and exhaust. Maybe someone knows the physical conditions of the current air intake box, is it to restrictative or is it fine where it doesn't need to be upgraded. Any vendors care to share the wealth?
"Also for all of you that have been wondering what mods were on our evo when it went 12.5 here it is. The EVO had our axel back exhaust, Manual Boost controller, fuel management, upgraded fuel reg., test pipe and our front mount intercooler. We were still running the factory air box. The factory unit is actually well designed and we removed it, it was only good for a few hp. So, we decided to keep it in. We were using pump gas for all the runs. We found that the factory intercooler is only good for about 280 wheel hp. The air that comes out of the factory turbo is real hot. So to get past that hp number a larger intercooler was needed."
As far as the K&N or similar cotton gauze/oil type drop in filters are concerned they flow significantly more air than paper elements. In order to do so, the air box must be capable of flowing the additional air. Pruven seems to think the stock box is sufficient. If you feel you need more you can always get one of the two Monster Carbon Intake Boxes as listed on Vivid Racing's site under intakes.
#24
Originally posted by EvoJimbo
I was just wondering by replacin the factory box with an open cone air intake, how vulnerable is it for rain water to get into your air intake?
I was just wondering by replacin the factory box with an open cone air intake, how vulnerable is it for rain water to get into your air intake?
Lastly, significant testing has been done on many cars using free-flowing cone type intakes. The most significant perfotmance gains were always attributed to the cooler air intake temperatures achieved by placing the inlet outside the hot engine bay. Cone type intakes within the hot confines of the engine compartment typically yield minimal gains unless the stock airbox and plumbing is very restrictive. Get colder intake air for best gains!
#25
Originally posted by Coolguy949
Thanks for not flaming, i appreciate a friendly discussion even when someone is wrong.
Thanks for not flaming, i appreciate a friendly discussion even when someone is wrong.
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Turboniam, here's what I noticed on VividRacing's site:
RMR Intake Cone:
The RMR intake system uses the basic theory of pure induction volume. We used a high flow filter with twice the needed filter area to insure our kit will be able to keep with any amount horse power. Do not be fooled by so called "cold air intakes." The turbo unit is the hottest part of the engine. As soon as the air travels through the turbo it heats up to a constant temperature anyway. But don't worry; the Evo has a very large and efficient intercooler that will cool all the air before entering the engine. There is no reason to risk damaging your turbo induction impellers with road derby. Keep your intake in the engine bay! The Filter & Bracket Kit Is available now!
Looks like I wasn't wrong afterall?
RMR Intake Cone:
The RMR intake system uses the basic theory of pure induction volume. We used a high flow filter with twice the needed filter area to insure our kit will be able to keep with any amount horse power. Do not be fooled by so called "cold air intakes." The turbo unit is the hottest part of the engine. As soon as the air travels through the turbo it heats up to a constant temperature anyway. But don't worry; the Evo has a very large and efficient intercooler that will cool all the air before entering the engine. There is no reason to risk damaging your turbo induction impellers with road derby. Keep your intake in the engine bay! The Filter & Bracket Kit Is available now!
Looks like I wasn't wrong afterall?
#27
Originally posted by Coolguy949
Looks like I wasn't wrong afterall?
Looks like I wasn't wrong afterall?
It is a fact, the colder the air, the better/faster the car will run... this is not from me, but something that I thought everyone knew?
Here is another example of how cold air affects performance. I have a buddy of mine that has a GTP (supercharged pontiac) ... it has no aftercooler/intercooler... on a nice cold/cool day his 1/4 times will vary from his hot weather 1/4 runs up to a half second... that is a WORLD of difference. The only change on the vehicle is simply the air that is being ingested into the vehicle... him not having an intercooler exagerates this principle.
The bottom line is that cold air/fresh air is better/more dense than hot air and your car will run better with some type of induction that limits the filter picking up hot air from the engine bay.
That is why tests have shown on various cars that removing a stock airbox and putting a cone filter in its place in the engine bay that sucks up all that hot air instead of being fed cooler/fresher/ambient temp air actually loses hp over the stock protected in a box filter!
If I were to do any mod to the intake beyond swapping the stock panel filter for a panel filter K&N, it would be the monster sport intake that protects the filter from the engine air and sucks in clean/fresh/cooler/ambient air from the front of the car.
#28
Originally posted by Coolguy949
The turbo unit is the hottest part of the engine. As soon as the air travels through the turbo it heats up to a constant temperature anyway. But don't worry; the Evo has a very large and efficient intercooler that will cool all the air before entering the engine. There is no reason to risk damaging your turbo induction impellers with road derby. Keep your intake in the engine bay! The Filter & Bracket Kit Is available now!
The turbo unit is the hottest part of the engine. As soon as the air travels through the turbo it heats up to a constant temperature anyway. But don't worry; the Evo has a very large and efficient intercooler that will cool all the air before entering the engine. There is no reason to risk damaging your turbo induction impellers with road derby. Keep your intake in the engine bay! The Filter & Bracket Kit Is available now!
#29
Originally posted by gtr
Turboniam, did you catch that? We all know N/A cars or non intercooled car cooler is better. That is a good point.
Turboniam, did you catch that? We all know N/A cars or non intercooled car cooler is better. That is a good point.
Perhaps cold air induction is good for .25hp which is not worth it.
Neither of us have dyno numbers, but every bit counts which is why I wouldn't leave my filter to suck up hot engine bay air.
Living in Texas makes it real easy to see the distinct difference between a hot day and a cold day performance... that is why I think it is important to seal off the airfilter from the engine bay to keep it from sucking up hotter air than ambient.
Imagine how hot the engine bay is when the ambient temp is 95 degrees...
#30
Originally posted by Turboniam
Imagine how hot the engine bay is when the ambient temp is 95 degrees...
Imagine how hot the engine bay is when the ambient temp is 95 degrees...