N10S

iTrader: (4)

Here's the K&N part number provided previously by Fireball 33-2105.

The hp panel filter vs CAI vs short ram cone filter controversy has been going on for a long time. It continues with a tuner like Pruven Performance saying the stock air box flows pretty well and an open element won't help much to another tuner like Burshcur Racing who feels it does help. Whos right? They are both reputable tuners .......confusing huh!

The drop in replacements don't provide a whole lot, but based on dyno info I have seen on the Vortex and Nasioc, they do seem to give you a 3-5hp gain depending on the car and type of panel filter you use. The ITG foam panel racing filter seem to flow a little better than the cloth K&N and also exhibited less oil bleed through that could coat the MAF. Unfortunately I don't think ITG makes one for our car yet.

On VW 1.8t Golf's the CAI's have been dynoed to show an add of up to 8-12 hp (mid-high end rpm)which is pretty substantial. Most of the short rams caused problems for the 1.8t, and a few tests actually showed little hp gain over the stocker and some low-end tq loss.

All engines are different, but for the 1.8t the "shorter-ram/hot air breathing filter is better" concept just doesn't prove out well.Even though the intercooler is going to cool the intake charge ,ingesting colder denser air is always better regardless of what kind of intake you are using.

Now back to the panel vs CAI debate. I am attaching an interesting link to a thread on VWVortex which has a pretty interesting discussion on the panel filter (K&N vs ITG) with dyno charts as well as re-testing the panel filters with a modded factory air box.Note I said "modded" air box.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=425307


Interestingly the numbers are as good if not better than most of the CAI's. As you check out the pictures of the mod you may freak that someone would do that to their stock box. Just remember that the stock boxes for a VW are only about $75 bucks and even less from a junkyard.

The only way this debate will ever be settled is if someone dynos a bone stock EVO, then drops in a K&N and re-dynos, then replaces the stock air box with a short-ram intake to determine what kinds of gains are made. The same could be done with an EVO with a few mods such as exhaust, DP, boost controller, and safc. This would help answer some of those questions and ensure our hard-earned mod money is being spent on the right parts.

Personally, I would like to see a CF airbox with drain holes, equipped with an ITG cone filter drawing cold air from the front corner of the car. This would give you the benefit of the ITG foam cone filter, which provides more ram effect than a simple drop in panel filter, and still provides cold air intake without the fear of ingesting water and potential hydra-lock.

I had this exact set-up on my MCoupe and it worked great! It sounded a little more throaty than stock but not annoying like many of the open cone filters.

Someone commented earlier that we should just wait to see what else materializes before jumping the gun. This is probably not a bad idea as more options materialize in the near future.

Sorry for the long post!!
Hope the link works and the info is interesting!

mhgsx

iTrader: (6)

The fact that the turbo is powered by hot exhaust gases, thus being one of the 'hottest part of the engine' has absolutely NOTHING to do w/ how hot the air gets.

It's called physics, people. BASIC physics. You're COMPRESSING air, and compressing air INCREASES its temperature. The actual time spent by a molecule of oxygen in the COMPRESSOR (hey, there's that word again) is less than 1/100th of a sec. Do you guys really think that that short of time is going to be the cause of the heat?

Here's the low down:

For a certain psi, the turbo will heat up the air to a certain level. Which do you think would be advantageous? Heating up hot air (ala cone-style filters w/no heat sheilding) or heating up colder air (ala factory air box, CAI)? Remember, the turbo will heat up the air to a SET amount.

mhgsx

iTrader: (6)

Oh, and please don't take this as a personal attack anyone. The fact that NO one else corrected this tidbit of misinformation indicates that a LOT of people don't really know the basics of turbocharging.

Coolguy949

iTrader: (10)

Thanks for the tip.

mhgsx

iTrader: (6)

Just to further add something to this. The only appropriate dyno would be the 'on-road dyno' that's also being discussed. Why? The stock airbox's induction port is designed for the positive pressure area created when the car is moving. Add the fact that short rams would have the advantage of the hood being raised (thus hot air being easily evacuated from the engine ) when being tested on a stationary dyno, results could be VERY misleading.

To get back to the main topic, consider this:

Buschur claims a 4HP gain for their filter replacement kit. (for those who don't know this kit, it is a conical filter that mounts directly to the MAF sensor and removes the factory airbox, thus drawing in hotter air) Now, this gain was dyno tested on a stationary dyno with the hood up . So basically it's 'cold' air that is going through it, even though it's not marketed as being such.

Now, I don't know how many people drive around w/ their hoods up, but I sure don't. And I know you guys can see the hot air rising out of the hood vent when we come to a stand still. You think this filter is still gonna produce a 4HP gain in real life conditions??

Heggley

Anyone thought of/ created a Ram Air type system to funnel air to the open element type filters?

On a side note: I had a GReddy Airinx intake added to my 88' RX-7 Annniversary turbo years ago. Once added, I had to buy a fuel cut defencer (made the engine think it was running less boost) in order to full throttle it. This was with a 3" full exhaust w/ no cat...
To me, that shows even though it was an open element, under the hood, it still provided good breathing and more HP; even with the run-as-hot-as-a-****-13B rotary engine...

timzcat

iTrader: (10)

The latest SCC issue talks about this in an article and it basically the temperature rise by the turbo is affected by the efficiency of the turbo. A CAI would be the **** and hopefully AEM is working on something.

I sent an email to RMR and told them they want to rethink their statements about that filter concerning the air temperature. (hehe...)

jfh

iTrader: (38)

Or some of us who recognized it as such a fundamental basic that we chose not to engage. Example: 2 + 2 = 4. Try explaining that to someone who is hell bent on believing that the answer is 5 yet has no concept of what a 2 is!

silverEVO8

iTrader: (12)

Forced induction will always result in a hotter charge due to the compression of air, that's why the intercooler is so important. The idea of CAIs however might not work out as theory would have it. The Australian tuners make and sell and (heavily) promote their "filter on a stick" systems for the WRX. They all claim tremendous power gains and according to them, the heated air under the engine is insignificant after the "real" heating it gets under compression.
I don't know any of this to be factual but it bears repeating. I know that CAI's are very effective in NA cars and provide measurable power increases. In cars with added roots type blowers, they might be of some use since there is not good way to intercool the charge. In turbo charged cars with effective intercooling, it might be true that the slight benefits gained by a CAI might be negated by the restriction of the necessary long and convoluted tubing needed to get the outside cooler air into the intake.
there is a great saying in engineering circles: "there is nothing so tragic as a beautiful theory murdered by a gang of brutal facts"

Peace