E85 Ethanol in a WRX. Good INFO for EVO?
May 2, 2006, 12:35 AM
#47
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Originally Posted by trinydex
http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?op...&topic=21382.0
some information that hinders this 'idealistic' view.
some information that hinders this 'idealistic' view.
Most of my views on ethanol come from a good friend of mine who is a chemical engineer who works for BP (british petrolium) and my brother who has a PHd in chemistry.
I'm not even going to get into political debates on this forum since i can already see there are many people who need to study up some more. And before you tell me to get off my high horse regarding politics, i've got a BA in Political Science and a minor in Constitutional Law.
My advice is to study up on positions that dont necessarily have to coinside with your own. Its called being objective.
May 2, 2006, 12:55 AM
#48
hey actually you wanna talk about this more? i just watched some sort of meeting on tv between some folks in the house of reps and while they were discussing "futures contracts" (dunno what those are, but i know they refer to oil, asked my polisci gf but she didn't know) and the prospects of moving to more e85 and possibly mimicking e100 use in brazil.
the informing party did discuss the prospect of e100 use and never cited limited resource as a problem! this intrigued me quite a bit. i acutally have no idea how much corn (or other product) it would take to produce enough e100 to support the united states automobile wise. now i'm very curious as i'd think the informing party would have cited such a limitation outright.
nevermind i got the futures contracts from wiki, seems they were talkin' about oil futures contracts and the guy kept saying that there is enough supply for the purchase demand. although the house guys were gettin' kinda mad or stern about how both e85 prices and oil prices were being significantly affected by political happenings around the globe. one of the informing party said that before we could rely on middle eastern countries to fall back on oil supply but now we can't.
yeah... just thot that all that was very interesting and relavent.
the informing party did discuss the prospect of e100 use and never cited limited resource as a problem! this intrigued me quite a bit. i acutally have no idea how much corn (or other product) it would take to produce enough e100 to support the united states automobile wise. now i'm very curious as i'd think the informing party would have cited such a limitation outright.
nevermind i got the futures contracts from wiki, seems they were talkin' about oil futures contracts and the guy kept saying that there is enough supply for the purchase demand. although the house guys were gettin' kinda mad or stern about how both e85 prices and oil prices were being significantly affected by political happenings around the globe. one of the informing party said that before we could rely on middle eastern countries to fall back on oil supply but now we can't.
yeah... just thot that all that was very interesting and relavent.
Last edited by trinydex; May 2, 2006 at 12:59 AM.
May 2, 2006, 05:17 AM
#49
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Last time i bought e-85 by the 55gallon drum it was 2.27 a gallon i have not checked to see what it is now. but i plan on converting my EVO to run on E-85 too just like i did with my honda. The fuel is great race gas for cheap but your range is not that good so you need to be able to switch back and forth on fuel.
May 2, 2006, 06:05 AM
#50
There's no question that there currently isn't an infrastructure (or enough corn production) to support the demand we'd have.. But ethanol can be produced from other crops such as Sugarbeets and whatnot.
What you will see is some of the fast growing hybrid plants that were genetically engineered, but never allowed to be used for food crops being grown in production plants, hydroponically.. It would be a new way of looking at it. Plus Ethanol can be produced from waste products produced from other manufacturing and farming.
I keep an open mind about all of this but I've always felt that there are enough "Fabricated" road blocks, I'm sure much of the availailability problems are due to production, but I'm also fairly certain that the lack of infrastructure exists because of a huge oil lobby preventing the fuel from becoming widely available for specialized use. And then a distribution network to GASOLINE STATIONS?? Where they would be competing with themselves (In reality they wouldn't be for quite some time, more than enough for them to figure out how to profit from it)
Then you have what was stated before.. You get less range out of Ethanol than Gasoline, and Pure Ethanol isn't a good fuel for colder climates since its harder to "Light off" Ethanol would need to either have starting fluid or preheater equipment in your car on cold days. Not the hardest things to accomodate all things considering.
What I find interesting is it would legitimize all of the backyard "White lightning" production and I think the issue with the government and the laws about Ethanol production is they can't Tax the hell out of that portion of the market, and you'll see ALOT of backyard production sprout up.
We can't have this idealistic view on all this stuff, but I am being realistic about my desire to run a flexible fuel system in my car.. I would like to see the government finally allow us to do it.
What you will see is some of the fast growing hybrid plants that were genetically engineered, but never allowed to be used for food crops being grown in production plants, hydroponically.. It would be a new way of looking at it. Plus Ethanol can be produced from waste products produced from other manufacturing and farming.
I keep an open mind about all of this but I've always felt that there are enough "Fabricated" road blocks, I'm sure much of the availailability problems are due to production, but I'm also fairly certain that the lack of infrastructure exists because of a huge oil lobby preventing the fuel from becoming widely available for specialized use. And then a distribution network to GASOLINE STATIONS?? Where they would be competing with themselves (In reality they wouldn't be for quite some time, more than enough for them to figure out how to profit from it)
Then you have what was stated before.. You get less range out of Ethanol than Gasoline, and Pure Ethanol isn't a good fuel for colder climates since its harder to "Light off" Ethanol would need to either have starting fluid or preheater equipment in your car on cold days. Not the hardest things to accomodate all things considering.
What I find interesting is it would legitimize all of the backyard "White lightning" production and I think the issue with the government and the laws about Ethanol production is they can't Tax the hell out of that portion of the market, and you'll see ALOT of backyard production sprout up.
We can't have this idealistic view on all this stuff, but I am being realistic about my desire to run a flexible fuel system in my car.. I would like to see the government finally allow us to do it.
May 2, 2006, 06:29 PM
#51
you bring up a great point that crops not fit for eating and what not would be perfect for automobile use.
also the taxation thing would be difficult, as the gov would surely want a hand in every gallon. haha bootleg alcohol of a whole new generation.
figures that most of the alcohol gas stations now are privateers. i wonder if it would pay off to invest in alcohol now... then we'd have a bigger problem with alcohol "piracy." we'd have the napsters of alcohol.
also the taxation thing would be difficult, as the gov would surely want a hand in every gallon. haha bootleg alcohol of a whole new generation.
figures that most of the alcohol gas stations now are privateers. i wonder if it would pay off to invest in alcohol now... then we'd have a bigger problem with alcohol "piracy." we'd have the napsters of alcohol.
May 2, 2006, 11:44 PM
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g'day fellas,
just reading through the topic and wanted to add my 2cents
i've been running 98oct/5%eth in my Skyline R33 for awhile and havent notice anythign unusal. i've moved to 98oct/10%eth with no change to ecu but will be keeping an eye on on how efficient the car runs. my friends been trying out 5%/10%eth on 98oct for awhile now with no harm to car with no modification on the ecu. i dont know much about the evo since im still new and reading the info you guys post up but so far i havent had problems with 98oct/5%eth with my evo (doesnt get used much beside long trips). i dont see why you shouldnt be able to use it at 5%rth however i have heard ppl using 10%eth and getting weird engine warning/random stalls. mitsu here doesnt recommend me here using eth but if my skyline can handle it, i dont see why my evo cant. looking forward to reading more updates about this. cheers
just reading through the topic and wanted to add my 2cents
i've been running 98oct/5%eth in my Skyline R33 for awhile and havent notice anythign unusal. i've moved to 98oct/10%eth with no change to ecu but will be keeping an eye on on how efficient the car runs. my friends been trying out 5%/10%eth on 98oct for awhile now with no harm to car with no modification on the ecu. i dont know much about the evo since im still new and reading the info you guys post up but so far i havent had problems with 98oct/5%eth with my evo (doesnt get used much beside long trips). i dont see why you shouldnt be able to use it at 5%rth however i have heard ppl using 10%eth and getting weird engine warning/random stalls. mitsu here doesnt recommend me here using eth but if my skyline can handle it, i dont see why my evo cant. looking forward to reading more updates about this. cheers
May 3, 2006, 07:29 AM
#53
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10% should have no effect on the car it even says in the manual that the car can run 10% i think there are other things going on with there car other then the 10% in the fuel.
May 3, 2006, 08:41 AM
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I am going to be near a E85 station tonight so I will add a couple gallons to my tank, along with 93 octane to see how it changes the AFR. I have a wideband setup on my car and will just eyeball the readings. My laptop battery is shot or I would log the results. I will try and add about 3 gallons and then put the rest with 93 to get a 20-30% mix. Any see any problems with this test?
May 3, 2006, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by fixem2
I am going to be near a E85 station tonight so I will add a couple gallons to my tank, along with 93 octane to see how it changes the AFR. I have a wideband setup on my car and will just eyeball the readings. My laptop battery is shot or I would log the results. I will try and add about 3 gallons and then put the rest with 93 to get a 20-30% mix. Any see any problems with this test?
-Paul
May 3, 2006, 10:18 AM
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To quote myself from another forum:
In other words, you'll be spending even more money and polluting just as much.
Just the other day, I was reading an article how GM's campain "Live green, go yellow" is a complete lie. They're pushing for corn so they can survive and inflate their mpg numbers due to the buggy or incorrect EPA ratings. They would also get huge tax breaks by switching to E85 on their cars. Scammers =
The only problem with E85 is most of it is made out of corn and to grow corn they normally need nitrate based fertilizers which are made by buring fossil fuel (and most of the equipment uses fossil fuel as well etc.). They are saying that you need to burn about 1 unit of fossil fuel to produce 1.3 units of E85. So it's not saving much on oil. Also it is going to be more expensive per driven mile, as Jack (that's MalibuJack on evom) said, E85 will be about 20-30% less effective than gasoline so even though you'll pay less per gallon, you'll waste more of it to make same mileage, and thus ultimately making it more expensive.
And also, with all these studies they made, nobody even thought about what effects it's going to have on ground/soil pollution (they probably did but are not telling
). They said it reduces between 15-25% greenhouse gases, which is OK but supposedly current ethanol producing plants are less enviromentally friendly than they should be.
And also, with all these studies they made, nobody even thought about what effects it's going to have on ground/soil pollution (they probably did but are not telling
). They said it reduces between 15-25% greenhouse gases, which is OK but supposedly current ethanol producing plants are less enviromentally friendly than they should be.
Just the other day, I was reading an article how GM's campain "Live green, go yellow" is a complete lie. They're pushing for corn so they can survive and inflate their mpg numbers due to the buggy or incorrect EPA ratings. They would also get huge tax breaks by switching to E85 on their cars. Scammers =
May 3, 2006, 11:18 AM
#57
Originally Posted by SoR
To quote myself from another forum:
In other words, you'll be spending even more money and polluting just as much.
Just the other day, I was reading an article how GM's campain "Live green, go yellow" is a complete lie. They're pushing for corn so they can survive and inflate their mpg numbers due to the buggy or incorrect EPA ratings. They would also get huge tax breaks by switching to E85 on their cars. Scammers =
In other words, you'll be spending even more money and polluting just as much.
Just the other day, I was reading an article how GM's campain "Live green, go yellow" is a complete lie. They're pushing for corn so they can survive and inflate their mpg numbers due to the buggy or incorrect EPA ratings. They would also get huge tax breaks by switching to E85 on their cars. Scammers =
The problem is we have a firmly grounded infrastructure based off of non-renewable engergy and no one wants to pay the cost to switch. We are procrastinating until fossil fuels will eventually become more expensive than the alternatives. There is still money to be made with fossil fuels and until that stops the transition is going to be slow.
May 4, 2006, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by EVOgasmIX
Well, you can switch the fuel or enegy source needed to run the equipment to produce fertilizer to something greener as well. Same thing for harvesting equipment. What people need to understand is this is a process, not an overnight solution. We need to stop our reliance on non-renewable energy sooner or later. It's not an if, but a when.
The problem is we have a firmly grounded infrastructure based off of non-renewable engergy and no one wants to pay the cost to switch. We are procrastinating until fossil fuels will eventually become more expensive than the alternatives. There is still money to be made with fossil fuels and until that stops the transition is going to be slow.
The problem is we have a firmly grounded infrastructure based off of non-renewable engergy and no one wants to pay the cost to switch. We are procrastinating until fossil fuels will eventually become more expensive than the alternatives. There is still money to be made with fossil fuels and until that stops the transition is going to be slow.
