The Best "50 trim" Ball Bearing Turbo Kit
Apr 1, 2008, 09:16 PM
#137
The new chart posted by ExViTermini shows a 40 whp drop from 7000 down to 6000, basically the same from 8000, while the Green only varies by 5 at most. Also, given the same scenario on a launch, the torque output now drops to 160 or so at 4000 instead of our 500+. The way I would see our car with the green, racing our car with this 50 trim is the Green would gain +2 cars on the launch due to torque, (at least), then through the gears the Green would now gain another 3 due to the lesser horsepower now on the new 50 trim. Remember, the other TurboTrix chart had a peak of 533 whp. This chart has a peak of 509. If et/mph calculators are correct, the Green is making approx 20whp more peak and holding it for the entire range. This 50trim makes 20whp less peak and drops more on the shifts. The Green would win by approximately 5 cars which at 120 mph is .5 seconds. Now take the 11.38 we mentioned earlier in dragtimes as the best 50trim, reduce it by .5 and you miraculously have a 10.88 for the Green. Just what we ran, 10.87 pre-build and Juns.
.....
Apr 2, 2008, 02:49 AM
#140
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Geez this 50trim vs. Green argument is very compelling, just wish you guys had it before I canceled my order for the Green in favour of a 50trim kit.
Anyway my reasoning for doing this was:
1. I plan on going 2.3L Stroker
2. I only plan on running 23psi
3. 93mon + Water-Alky is all I have for fueling
4. I want to pull harder to the red-line.
5. I want to minimise boost taper
500WHP on a Dynojet is about the max I would push it to...
The Green is a fantastic Turbo and can be pushed to my goals but I would need to run higher octane fuel and also do a lot of porting as well as use more agressive cams.
Anyway the 49lbs/min 50trim kit will land me about the same as the 47lbs/min Green the way I'm doing it, the thing I feel I'm gona score on is a T3 .63 Hotside as this is the key to a wider powerband on a 2.3L, will sacrifice some spool and transient response for a higher trap speed, not much though...
Plus I have a Twinscroll GT3076R on the shelf as backup, just need to build a kit around it...
.
Anyway my reasoning for doing this was:
1. I plan on going 2.3L Stroker
2. I only plan on running 23psi
3. 93mon + Water-Alky is all I have for fueling
4. I want to pull harder to the red-line.
5. I want to minimise boost taper
500WHP on a Dynojet is about the max I would push it to...
The Green is a fantastic Turbo and can be pushed to my goals but I would need to run higher octane fuel and also do a lot of porting as well as use more agressive cams.
Anyway the 49lbs/min 50trim kit will land me about the same as the 47lbs/min Green the way I'm doing it, the thing I feel I'm gona score on is a T3 .63 Hotside as this is the key to a wider powerband on a 2.3L, will sacrifice some spool and transient response for a higher trap speed, not much though...
Plus I have a Twinscroll GT3076R on the shelf as backup, just need to build a kit around it...
.
Last edited by supersal; Apr 2, 2008 at 02:57 AM.
Apr 2, 2008, 03:05 AM
#141
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9sec9 -- With your Green did you do a lot of porting / head work? I was planning on just making my car more fun for the street (no track use) and running meth. I have a TT 50 trim that I got for a deal, but maybe I should sell and just get a green ??? Thanks in advance for your perspective...
If you can then it means that many people are not utilising the Green to its full potential and all the 50Trim pump gas king talk around here is just hype...
Whats your verdict?
.
Apr 2, 2008, 05:42 AM
#142
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Guys, there is absolutely no denying that a Green is a MUCH better bang-for-the-buck than a 50 trim kit. I run a 50 trim and I have no problems admitting it. As I've stated earlier in this thread, IMO you either go BIG (i.e. HTA 35r) or you go Green.
Supersal, if you're going to run a 2.3, then IMO it would be criminal not to run an HTA 35r on it. Even a regular 35R is crazy on a 2.3 and pump gas (search for Smogrunner's dyno charts here on the forums) and an HTA should be even better.
l8r)
Supersal, if you're going to run a 2.3, then IMO it would be criminal not to run an HTA 35r on it. Even a regular 35R is crazy on a 2.3 and pump gas (search for Smogrunner's dyno charts here on the forums) and an HTA should be even better.
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Apr 2, 2008, 06:53 AM
#143
Now that the HTA3076 is out, I would strongly look at that turbo if you're wanting both streetability AND potential at the track. I think it's going to be a very good compromise between the Green and the HTA35R. It's just a fact that as time goes one, better products come to the market, even if they're derivatives of earlier models. The day will come when the Green is looked upon in a similar fashion as the 50 trim is now. That's the nature of the life cycle of a product. The Green will be replaced by something that makes more power, just as the 50 trim is being replaced by something else. I think the dyno sheets prove my point. At best, a 1000 rpm difference in spool and less whp in the rpm range makes the Green the clear winner. Tomorrow, I would be saying the same thing about the Green. I'm not married to this turbo, I just like it for it's values and performance.
Apr 2, 2008, 07:14 AM
#144
cij911, supersal...I've already been OT in this thread enough, so I hate to recommend a different turbo than the OP intended for the thread to evaluate. That's one of the reason's I tried to keep it on topic using actual dyno sheets of 50 trims and comparing those to our known dyno/performance. It makes comparisons have a perspective. I think the facts are now known, barring another dyno sheet being thrown up as the best 50 trim. It would be even better if we could find a dyno sheet for the actual 11.3x 50-trim that made the run. One last point that backs my earlier statements concerning 'Our Green' against 'Our 50 Trim'. When I said that the Green wins at the launch, I just noticed that the 50 trims 60' times were 1.73x. The Green has made 2 runs already this year in the 1.4's and an average of 1.51 for I believe it's last 10 passes. Since this is the fastest posted 50 trim, it's easy to assume that the driver was not a newbie to the sport and new how to launch his car. Even if he wasn't 'maxed' on the launch, neither is OKIX. The point is, 1.73 vs 1.4x backs up my analogy of 2 car advantage to the Green on the launch. The information has been posted to make a good decision for YOUR particular application. I know what our application was and we chose the Green. Maybe the 50 trim would be best for you. Only you know the true application, but if it's similar to ours, the choice would be clear.
Apr 2, 2008, 10:57 AM
#145
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I was a bit disappointed in my number with the green. Mods.
RRE 2.3 Stroker, RRE X clutch 3,200lbs (no name)
HKS272/272 cams, Niese FMIC, AMS LICP, Fidanza Cam Gears, Vishnu TBE, Denso 720 injectors, K&N Drop in Filter, Walbro 255 Fuel Pump, Ported Manifold (WOT), Ported Hotside (WOT), Megan o2 Housing, Baileys DV, Hallman MBC.
stock intake, stock tb, stock intake manifold
Cam Gears set at zero there were never adjusted during the tuning session. Tuned by Tuning Technologies. 91 oct dynojet. I'm not trying to get flamed here (probably will) but just posting my graph to show the numbers I made and so you guys have another graph to compare.
RRE 2.3 Stroker, RRE X clutch 3,200lbs (no name)
HKS272/272 cams, Niese FMIC, AMS LICP, Fidanza Cam Gears, Vishnu TBE, Denso 720 injectors, K&N Drop in Filter, Walbro 255 Fuel Pump, Ported Manifold (WOT), Ported Hotside (WOT), Megan o2 Housing, Baileys DV, Hallman MBC.
stock intake, stock tb, stock intake manifold
Cam Gears set at zero there were never adjusted during the tuning session. Tuned by Tuning Technologies. 91 oct dynojet. I'm not trying to get flamed here (probably will) but just posting my graph to show the numbers I made and so you guys have another graph to compare.
Apr 2, 2008, 11:11 AM
#146
JMB -- Thanks for your dynos ^^ ....Most of the Greens I have seen are behaving more like yours, so I was perplexed why that would perform better than the standard BB 50 trim...Most of the 50 trims I see are in the mid to high 400's, with peak tq around low to mid 4000 rpm (so strong powerband from 4500 - 8000 rpm)...
Apr 2, 2008, 11:21 AM
#147
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I was a bit disappointed in my number with the green. Mods.
RRE 2.3 Stroker, RRE X clutch 3,200lbs (no name)
HKS272/272 cams, Niese FMIC, AMS LICP, Fidanza Cam Gears, Vishnu TBE, Denso 720 injectors, K&N Drop in Filter, Walbro 255 Fuel Pump, Ported Manifold (WOT), Ported Hotside (WOT), Megan o2 Housing, Baileys DV, Hallman MBC.
stock intake, stock tb, stock intake manifold
Cam Gears set at zero there were never adjusted during the tuning session. Tuned by Tuning Technologies. 91 oct dynojet. I'm not trying to get flamed here (probably will) but just posting my graph to show the numbers I made and so you guys have another graph to compare.
RRE 2.3 Stroker, RRE X clutch 3,200lbs (no name)
HKS272/272 cams, Niese FMIC, AMS LICP, Fidanza Cam Gears, Vishnu TBE, Denso 720 injectors, K&N Drop in Filter, Walbro 255 Fuel Pump, Ported Manifold (WOT), Ported Hotside (WOT), Megan o2 Housing, Baileys DV, Hallman MBC.
stock intake, stock tb, stock intake manifold
Cam Gears set at zero there were never adjusted during the tuning session. Tuned by Tuning Technologies. 91 oct dynojet. I'm not trying to get flamed here (probably will) but just posting my graph to show the numbers I made and so you guys have another graph to compare.
Apr 2, 2008, 11:54 AM
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Ok, so I did about 15 minutes worth of digging on Green dyno results. IMO, shown below is what anyone can realistically expect from a Green setup. Here we go:
FP Green, HKS 272's, FMIC, o2 housing with dump tube, PTE 680's, UICP and LICP, HKS Carbon Ti
Lots of Green dyno info in this thread:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=312315
l8r)
FP Green, HKS 272's, FMIC, o2 housing with dump tube, PTE 680's, UICP and LICP, HKS Carbon Ti
I retuned a local guy with 110 octane couple weeks ago with a FPgreen.
Before, he did 374whp/328wtq on 100 oct, 25psi peak.
Retuned on 110 octane:
2005 Evo 8
Mods:
TBE no cat
GSC S1 cams
Stock cam gears
Tubular header
FPgreen turbo
Tubular 02 housing
Sun HyperForce
GST Open Filter
Denso 720cc injectors
Fuel Pump
FMIC
Boost Assembly (ecu-controlled boost)
110 octane
Factory ECU and MAF
403whp / 360wtq
27psi peak to 23psi at 7400rpm.
Low reading mustang dyno. 400 is basically the "holy grail" on this dyno on a turbo like this. First FPgreen locally that has done over 400.
91 octane fpgreen equipped 8's and 9's do approx 325-345whp on this dyno, depending on mod level.
Keep in mind this is "sane" boost, not the 30+ psi I see others doing, not that 30+ is a bad thing, but this guy tracks and autox's this car so I felt 28+ would be pushing it.
There is more left in it if it was a more aggressive tune. The tubular header added a bunch of lag to the car but I'm sure it isn't a big deal with the power being what it is.
Oh, the car only weighs 26XXlbs without driver. Rocket for sure.
Before, he did 374whp/328wtq on 100 oct, 25psi peak.
Retuned on 110 octane:
2005 Evo 8
Mods:
TBE no cat
GSC S1 cams
Stock cam gears
Tubular header
FPgreen turbo
Tubular 02 housing
Sun HyperForce
GST Open Filter
Denso 720cc injectors
Fuel Pump
FMIC
Boost Assembly (ecu-controlled boost)
110 octane
Factory ECU and MAF
403whp / 360wtq
27psi peak to 23psi at 7400rpm.
Low reading mustang dyno. 400 is basically the "holy grail" on this dyno on a turbo like this. First FPgreen locally that has done over 400.
91 octane fpgreen equipped 8's and 9's do approx 325-345whp on this dyno, depending on mod level.
Keep in mind this is "sane" boost, not the 30+ psi I see others doing, not that 30+ is a bad thing, but this guy tracks and autox's this car so I felt 28+ would be pushing it.
There is more left in it if it was a more aggressive tune. The tubular header added a bunch of lag to the car but I'm sure it isn't a big deal with the power being what it is.
Oh, the car only weighs 26XXlbs without driver. Rocket for sure.
Here are a bunch:
--------------------------------------------------
2006 Evo 9
Mods:
Turbo back 3" exhaust, no cat
GST Open air filter (stock rubber intake pipe)
Denso 720cc injectors
Walbro Fuel Pump
FPGreen turbo (ported hotside)
Ported factory exhaust manifold
Titek tubular 02 housing
ETS 3.5" FMIC
ETS hard Intercooler piping
Sun Hyperforce Ignition
Cosworth Mivec Cams
GM boost solenoid (Ecu-controlled boost)
Upgraded Springs and retainers
91 octane California fuel
23psi peak (1.6 bar), 20 psi (1.4bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
----------------------------------
2006 Evo 9
Mods
WORKS 3" turboback exhaust
RRE Rally Cat (test pipe, no cat)
FP Green Turbo w/stock WGA
Ported and coated WORKS O2 housing
Ported and coated turbo hotside and coldside
Ported and coated exhaust manifold
ARP Headstuds
WORKS 62mm throttle body
ETS 3.5" intercooler
ETS LICP
GST Open air filter
720cc Denso injectors
Walbro 255l Fuel pump
GM 3-port boost solenoid (Ecu-controlled boost)
Sun Hyper Force Ignition
Stock cams
91 octane California Fuel
24psi peak (1.66 bar), 20.5 psi (1.42bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
-------------------------------------
2006 Evo 9
Mods
Cosworth Mivec cams
FPgreen with IX actuator
Denso 720cc injectors
Valvetrain upgrade
Headstuds
Fuel Pump
Hard Lower Intercooler piping
3" turbo back exhaust with no cat (HRS catback)
Open Air filter
Hallman Manual Boost controller (bleed valve)
Tubular 02 housing
91 octane California Fuel
24psi peak (1.66 bar), 20.5 psi (1.42bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
-------------------------------------
2006 Evo 9
Mods
GSC S1 Mivec cams
FPgreen with FP actuator
Denso 720cc injectors
Fuel Pump
Nisei upper/lower intercooler pipes
3" Turbo back exhaust with no cat
HKS Kansai airbox with HKS 'flower' filter
HKS hard intake pipe
GM boost solenoid (Ecu controlled boost)
Ported factory exhaust manifold
Tubular 02 housing
91 octane California Fuel
24psi peak (1.66 bar), 21 psi (1.45 bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
-------------------------------------
2006 Evo 9
Mods
3" Turbo back exhaust with no cat
Upper and lower hard intercooler pipes
Tubular 02 housing with porting
FPgreen with porting
Stock exhaust manifold with porting
Sun hyper ignition system
Denso 720cc injectors
Fuel Pump upgrade
Open air filter
GSC mivec cams
GM boost solenoid (ecu controlled boost)
91 octane California Fuel
23psi peak (1.6 bar), 21 psi (1.45 bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
Same Evo, 91 octane California fuel plus methanol injection
25psi (1.75 bar) peak to 23psi (1.6 bar) at 7200 rpm
11.5 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning:
Same Evo, 100 octane fuel plus methanol injection (unfinished tune)
28.5psi (1.97bar) peak to 24.5psi (1.7bar) at 7200 rpm
11.8 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning:
-------------------------------------
2005 Evo 8
Mods
FPGreen w/ WOT porting
GSC S1's with Cam gears @ -1/-2
65mm WOT Throttle body
Forge RS BOV
RC 750cc injectors
Cold Air Boxâ„¢
Ebay open air filter
PPI exhaust mani (ported)
Works 3" 02 & Downpipe
100 cell metal cat
RNR 3" catback
Nisei FMIC & UICP
AMS lower IC pipe
Swain coatings
GM solenoid (ecu-boost control)
91 octane California Fuel
21.5psi peak (1.5 bar), 20 psi (1.4 bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
Same Evo with 100 octane fuel
24.5psi peak (1.7bar), 24psi (1.65bar) at 7200 rpm
-------------------------------------
2005 Evo 8
Mods
FPgreen turbo with stock evo 9 actuator
Stock exhaust manifold and stock 02 housing unported
HKS 272/272 cams
HKS cam gears (set at +1/-1)
Denso 720cc injectors
Walboro fuel pump
ETS FMIC
Nisei LICP
Stock UICP (upgraded with tbolts but stock couplers)
3" catback
2.75" Espelir downpipe
RRE rallycat (no cat)
GST open air filter
GM boost solenoid (ECU boost control)
100 octane Fuel
26.5psi peak (1.83 bar), 23 psi (1.6 bar) at 7200rpm
11.7 to 11.5AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
--------------------------------------------------
2006 Evo 9
Mods:
Turbo back 3" exhaust, no cat
GST Open air filter (stock rubber intake pipe)
Denso 720cc injectors
Walbro Fuel Pump
FPGreen turbo (ported hotside)
Ported factory exhaust manifold
Titek tubular 02 housing
ETS 3.5" FMIC
ETS hard Intercooler piping
Sun Hyperforce Ignition
Cosworth Mivec Cams
GM boost solenoid (Ecu-controlled boost)
Upgraded Springs and retainers
91 octane California fuel
23psi peak (1.6 bar), 20 psi (1.4bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
----------------------------------
2006 Evo 9
Mods
WORKS 3" turboback exhaust
RRE Rally Cat (test pipe, no cat)
FP Green Turbo w/stock WGA
Ported and coated WORKS O2 housing
Ported and coated turbo hotside and coldside
Ported and coated exhaust manifold
ARP Headstuds
WORKS 62mm throttle body
ETS 3.5" intercooler
ETS LICP
GST Open air filter
720cc Denso injectors
Walbro 255l Fuel pump
GM 3-port boost solenoid (Ecu-controlled boost)
Sun Hyper Force Ignition
Stock cams
91 octane California Fuel
24psi peak (1.66 bar), 20.5 psi (1.42bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
-------------------------------------
2006 Evo 9
Mods
Cosworth Mivec cams
FPgreen with IX actuator
Denso 720cc injectors
Valvetrain upgrade
Headstuds
Fuel Pump
Hard Lower Intercooler piping
3" turbo back exhaust with no cat (HRS catback)
Open Air filter
Hallman Manual Boost controller (bleed valve)
Tubular 02 housing
91 octane California Fuel
24psi peak (1.66 bar), 20.5 psi (1.42bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
-------------------------------------
2006 Evo 9
Mods
GSC S1 Mivec cams
FPgreen with FP actuator
Denso 720cc injectors
Fuel Pump
Nisei upper/lower intercooler pipes
3" Turbo back exhaust with no cat
HKS Kansai airbox with HKS 'flower' filter
HKS hard intake pipe
GM boost solenoid (Ecu controlled boost)
Ported factory exhaust manifold
Tubular 02 housing
91 octane California Fuel
24psi peak (1.66 bar), 21 psi (1.45 bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
-------------------------------------
2006 Evo 9
Mods
3" Turbo back exhaust with no cat
Upper and lower hard intercooler pipes
Tubular 02 housing with porting
FPgreen with porting
Stock exhaust manifold with porting
Sun hyper ignition system
Denso 720cc injectors
Fuel Pump upgrade
Open air filter
GSC mivec cams
GM boost solenoid (ecu controlled boost)
91 octane California Fuel
23psi peak (1.6 bar), 21 psi (1.45 bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
Same Evo, 91 octane California fuel plus methanol injection
25psi (1.75 bar) peak to 23psi (1.6 bar) at 7200 rpm
11.5 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning:
Same Evo, 100 octane fuel plus methanol injection (unfinished tune)
28.5psi (1.97bar) peak to 24.5psi (1.7bar) at 7200 rpm
11.8 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning:
-------------------------------------
2005 Evo 8
Mods
FPGreen w/ WOT porting
GSC S1's with Cam gears @ -1/-2
65mm WOT Throttle body
Forge RS BOV
RC 750cc injectors
Cold Air Boxâ„¢
Ebay open air filter
PPI exhaust mani (ported)
Works 3" 02 & Downpipe
100 cell metal cat
RNR 3" catback
Nisei FMIC & UICP
AMS lower IC pipe
Swain coatings
GM solenoid (ecu-boost control)
91 octane California Fuel
21.5psi peak (1.5 bar), 20 psi (1.4 bar) at 7200rpm
11.2 to 10.9 AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
Same Evo with 100 octane fuel
24.5psi peak (1.7bar), 24psi (1.65bar) at 7200 rpm
-------------------------------------
2005 Evo 8
Mods
FPgreen turbo with stock evo 9 actuator
Stock exhaust manifold and stock 02 housing unported
HKS 272/272 cams
HKS cam gears (set at +1/-1)
Denso 720cc injectors
Walboro fuel pump
ETS FMIC
Nisei LICP
Stock UICP (upgraded with tbolts but stock couplers)
3" catback
2.75" Espelir downpipe
RRE rallycat (no cat)
GST open air filter
GM boost solenoid (ECU boost control)
100 octane Fuel
26.5psi peak (1.83 bar), 23 psi (1.6 bar) at 7200rpm
11.7 to 11.5AFR
Stock Ecu with reflash custom tuning
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=312315
l8r)