Results! 16G/HKS 280's vs. Buschur 20G-9/Revolvers
May 24, 2006, 02:39 PM
#16
I will try to take a look at the cam gears tonight. I am pretty sure they are zeroed out. I know Buschur doesn't usually mess with cam gears, but I had them on there before I took the car in, so he left them on.
I don't know about other EM systems. I can tell you that it idles at between 8-10mmhg, which is almost half of what the 280's idled at. These things are so different than the HKS cams that so many people are familiar with - maybe there is a "trick" to getting all the power out of them. Something that the average tuner hasn't caught on to yet. I don't really know. I just give David my money and say "Make the car fast" and he does exactly that.
EVOlutionary
I don't know about other EM systems. I can tell you that it idles at between 8-10mmhg, which is almost half of what the 280's idled at. These things are so different than the HKS cams that so many people are familiar with - maybe there is a "trick" to getting all the power out of them. Something that the average tuner hasn't caught on to yet. I don't really know. I just give David my money and say "Make the car fast" and he does exactly that.
EVOlutionary
May 24, 2006, 03:40 PM
#17
I heard one solution was to increase idle speed, since some reported stalling issues with the revolvers. I need to talk to some people, since hearsay on the Internet is just that. By people I mean Shiv, Alfred @ Tuning Tech, etc. because I am not changing my EM system just to run non-HKS cams.
May 24, 2006, 03:57 PM
#18
Originally Posted by atlvalet
I heard one solution was to increase idle speed, since some reported stalling issues with the revolvers. I need to talk to some people, since hearsay on the Internet is just that. By people I mean Shiv, Alfred @ Tuning Tech, etc. because I am not changing my EM system just to run non-HKS cams.
And the question is not whether you should change EM system "just to run non-HKS cams", the question is would you change EM systems to make a ton more torque down low and more top end, and have more control over your car?
I knew where I was going with the car last year, so even though I didn't NEED to go with the EMS, I knew that anything based on the stock ECU was at some point going to hold me back. It is like when you first start off modding your car. Are you going to get a 2.5" turbo back exhaust because that is all that you can make use of at that time, or are you going with the 3" because you know that too soon the smaller one will become a restriction?
EVOlutionary
May 24, 2006, 05:57 PM
#19
I know what you are saying, but honestly, for me, I like the safeguards the XEDE has built in. I understand that a MAP system could work better with a more aggresive cam, but everything is give and take.
There have been more than a few stories of people blowing up their engines, especially with AEM's. There are even tuners who experience problems, but you don't see that getting talked about on the forums.
At least , for the first time, I've seen an explanation on why there has been problems with the Revolvers while running the stock MAF. That's the first time I've seen it.
There have been more than a few stories of people blowing up their engines, especially with AEM's. There are even tuners who experience problems, but you don't see that getting talked about on the forums.
At least , for the first time, I've seen an explanation on why there has been problems with the Revolvers while running the stock MAF. That's the first time I've seen it.
May 24, 2006, 09:55 PM
#21
Before - 335WHP on dynojet on 93. After - 300 whp on mustang dyno on 92+meth.
That is why. I didn't have a good comparison. The car has C16 in it when I took it down so that is what I had David baseline it at.
Personally, I don't care what it makes on pump gas. When I race I use C16. That is where I need to see results.
EVOlutionary
That is why. I didn't have a good comparison. The car has C16 in it when I took it down so that is what I had David baseline it at.
Personally, I don't care what it makes on pump gas. When I race I use C16. That is where I need to see results.
EVOlutionary
May 24, 2006, 10:18 PM
#22
you can get the xede to do a decent job of idling. the fact that you are using a cam angle sensor based intercept to affect timing means you can put more timing in than the factory ecu will allow you at idle.
most idle tuning is about advancing ignition timing at idle. then throwing fuel if still necessary and then as a last resort turning up the idle screw, which will totally mess up your fuel economy. yes i mention this not cuz i'm a cheap *** but because usually well tuned cars are really good on gas mileage.
that said i have to ask erik why he wants monster cams... are you getting a bigger turbo? gotta match the cams to the turbo...
most idle tuning is about advancing ignition timing at idle. then throwing fuel if still necessary and then as a last resort turning up the idle screw, which will totally mess up your fuel economy. yes i mention this not cuz i'm a cheap *** but because usually well tuned cars are really good on gas mileage.
that said i have to ask erik why he wants monster cams... are you getting a bigger turbo? gotta match the cams to the turbo...
May 24, 2006, 10:28 PM
#23
"Monster Cams?" Why must a bigger turbo be a pre-requisite for "monster cams". I think that the dyno graphs (not just mine) show that the Revolvers Cams make awesome power on even stock style turbos. And for those of you with BIG turbos (GT40-45) call up David for some other options you may have not heard about.
EVOlutionary
EVOlutionary
May 24, 2006, 11:02 PM
#24
mmm because a cam should be matched to the turbo. i've been pmed a bit recently about an individual who put big cams on his stock 9.8 turbo setup...
he now runs less boost than before with nothing changed. he makes more power and torque everywhere but it's apparent that his turbo is a limitation. the exhaust side is gettin' backed up and the turbine isn't able to work as efficiently which directly affects the compressor.
depends on what you're going for. if you need to squeeze every last bit out of a certain turbo... then a biggie cam will certainly do that for you. i'll call you a sandbagger... but that's not necessarily a bad thing :]
he now runs less boost than before with nothing changed. he makes more power and torque everywhere but it's apparent that his turbo is a limitation. the exhaust side is gettin' backed up and the turbine isn't able to work as efficiently which directly affects the compressor.
depends on what you're going for. if you need to squeeze every last bit out of a certain turbo... then a biggie cam will certainly do that for you. i'll call you a sandbagger... but that's not necessarily a bad thing :]
May 25, 2006, 09:03 AM
#25
Originally Posted by trinydex
1. mmm because a cam should be matched to the turbo . . .
2. he now runs less boost than before with nothing changed. he makes more power and torque everywhere . . .
3. if you need to squeeze every last bit out of a certain turbo...then a biggie cam will certainly do that for you.
4. I'll call you a sandbagger . . .
2. he now runs less boost than before with nothing changed. he makes more power and torque everywhere . . .
3. if you need to squeeze every last bit out of a certain turbo...then a biggie cam will certainly do that for you.
4. I'll call you a sandbagger . . .
1 - I agree. It's just that people's opinion of what's a "match" varies greatly.
2 - Sounds like what we all would like to have!
3 - I think that's what most people want. You pick the smallest turbo possible to meet your goals, and then max it out to get to your goal.
4 - sandbagger? why? I don't understand . . .
What brand of big cams was this individual using? Was he also trying to tune it with an XEDE?
EVOlutionary
May 25, 2006, 10:24 AM
#27
I guess what I am looking for is a more aggressive cam than HKS, but can work well with the XEDE interceptor EMS. I mean, I could always go with 264/272 or straight 272's, but how interesting is that? 
And the Revolvers seem to work alright with the 9 20G, so they could work with the WR. I understand what you're saying about the hotside though. If I get cams that can outflow the turbo, what the hell is the point. Right Dave?
And just for the record, I have seen some so-so results with the HKS 280s. I wish someone with either the Tomei 260's or the JUN 264's chimed in with stock turbo comparisons.
And the Revolvers seem to work alright with the 9 20G, so they could work with the WR. I understand what you're saying about the hotside though. If I get cams that can outflow the turbo, what the hell is the point. Right Dave?
And just for the record, I have seen some so-so results with the HKS 280s. I wish someone with either the Tomei 260's or the JUN 264's chimed in with stock turbo comparisons.
May 25, 2006, 10:46 AM
#28
Evolved Member
iTrader: (44)
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 4,409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed. The 280's don't look like enough for me to change from 264's... but I can't afford AEM EMS so I'm in the market for the most aggressive cam I can use with dynoflash/stock maf...
BUT these revolver cams look nicer ever chart i see so maybe it would be worth saving up some $$$.
BUT these revolver cams look nicer ever chart i see so maybe it would be worth saving up some $$$.
May 25, 2006, 02:42 PM
#29
Originally Posted by justchil
Agreed. The 280's don't look like enough for me to change from 264's... but I can't afford AEM EMS so I'm in the market for the most aggressive cam I can use with dynoflash/stock maf...
BUT these revolver cams look nicer ever chart i see so maybe it would be worth saving up some $$$.
BUT these revolver cams look nicer ever chart i see so maybe it would be worth saving up some $$$.
although i have seen some threads on here where people used ecutek with revolvers and said they worked find and idled well, but there are others who say there is no way to tune revolvers with the stock ecu. dont know who to believe!
