Results! 16G/HKS 280's vs. Buschur 20G-9/Revolvers
May 30, 2006, 11:09 PM
#46
what he basically did was seperate the cams by 3 degrees and then retard the combo by 3-4 degrees depending on where you "call" his centered setup. that would make a good amount of top end power and idle well with good idle tuning.
efi you forgot to mention you did it all on ecuflash!
efi you forgot to mention you did it all on ecuflash!
May 30, 2006, 11:31 PM
#47
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Originally Posted by atlvalet
Well, I have the XEDE. But i have heard stories. I guess I should just get off my duff and call Shiv to see what their experiences are instead of relying on random postings on this board 
BTW, I know people have had no problems with the XEDE and 280's.
BTW, I know people have had no problems with the XEDE and 280's.
very curious about revolvers and XEDE also please call and let me know what he says. right now were on 264/272 combo but soon upgrading to a 50 trim so also thinking it might be time to get better cams too, such as revovlers.
also XEDE revolver cam info will be greatly appricated.
May 31, 2006, 12:29 AM
#49
A few things.
The largest factor in getting the cams to idle, if you install them straight up, is the MAF sensor. Yes, you can jack the idle, yes you can jack the timing at idle and yes of course you can monkey with the cam gear settings. The real problem though lies elsewhere though running a large cam with the MAF. The MAF inlet pipe has a very large effect on the idle with larger cams. Honestly, as much as it hurts me to type this, if you are going to attempt to run HKS 280 or larger cams on a reflash your best bet is to run the factory black rubber MAF inlet pipe.
I have not personally tried using the ECUflash software yet, I have it though. I also don't know if Al has tried to reflash the Revolvers, I have asked him and it is his opinion he can't make it work very good. The cams are very aggressive. Maybe if he tried it the story would be different.
The comment about the extensive dyno testing to get the hp and torque to match with a set of cams, not trying to start something, that shouldn't be too difficult depending on the turbo you are running. It is my goal, as well as Al's, to have the torque as high as the HP even with the stock cams, not degreed. It really isn't much of a challenge to do that in most cases.
www.buschurracing.com
The largest factor in getting the cams to idle, if you install them straight up, is the MAF sensor. Yes, you can jack the idle, yes you can jack the timing at idle and yes of course you can monkey with the cam gear settings. The real problem though lies elsewhere though running a large cam with the MAF. The MAF inlet pipe has a very large effect on the idle with larger cams. Honestly, as much as it hurts me to type this, if you are going to attempt to run HKS 280 or larger cams on a reflash your best bet is to run the factory black rubber MAF inlet pipe.
I have not personally tried using the ECUflash software yet, I have it though. I also don't know if Al has tried to reflash the Revolvers, I have asked him and it is his opinion he can't make it work very good. The cams are very aggressive. Maybe if he tried it the story would be different.
The comment about the extensive dyno testing to get the hp and torque to match with a set of cams, not trying to start something, that shouldn't be too difficult depending on the turbo you are running. It is my goal, as well as Al's, to have the torque as high as the HP even with the stock cams, not degreed. It really isn't much of a challenge to do that in most cases.
www.buschurracing.com
May 31, 2006, 01:02 AM
#50
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
The comment about the extensive dyno testing to get the hp and torque to match with a set of cams, not trying to start something, that shouldn't be too difficult depending on the turbo you are running. It is my goal, as well as Al's, to have the torque as high as the HP even with the stock cams, not degreed. It really isn't much of a challenge to do that in most cases.
http://www.gruppe-s.com/DynoDay/DynoDay.htm
268HP/242TQ
HKS Ti Exhaust
Downpipe
Test Pipe
Apexi Intake
HKS 272/272 Camshafts
Walbro Fuel Pump
Helix IC Piping
Dyno Flash
276HP/260TQ
GSC 272/264 Cams
3" TBE Catless
Hallman MBC
Dynoflash Custom Tune
In fact not one car crossed over 300 whp or 300 wtq that day or was even near 300 whp or 300 tq with BPU configurations.
Over 300 whp on this dyno isn't easy. also, the fact that not one car had similar hp and tq numbers regardless of tuner, just goes to show that this dyno might read a bit different.
Maybe its not hard for you, but it surely isn't trival or common.
Atlvalet,
I'm running a stock 05' turbo unmodified, cosworth m2's require springs and retainers. I'm running revolvers which have proven to be very good and trouble free.
Last edited by EFIxMR; May 31, 2006 at 01:06 AM.
May 31, 2006, 02:21 AM
#51
After a bit of digging in our local forum's archives I finally found a member who had his car custom dyno flashed that had the near the same amount of tq and hp and crossed over 300...
Then upon closer reading i found out this was on alky!
Good numbers nonetheless but it just goes to show 300 either tq or whp on this dyno isn't easy!
If this isn't enough here is another Dynoflash car.
Mods:
Dynoflash
Buschur TBE 3"
HKS 272 in/ex
Walboro 255
Forge BOV
Here's a detail file of my tune
Mods:
Custom ECUFlash
Cosworth M2
Revolver spring & retainers
SE 5 bolt cam gear
SE TBE 3"
Hallman MBC
Walboro fuel pump
HKS drop in filter
MR BOV
Surely, my custom ECUflash tune is a bit more "extensive" than what you guys are offering to our local folks here in Norcal.
May 31, 2006, 08:06 AM
#54
Originally Posted by justchil
I'm confused.. what do all these dyno charts have to do with these the idle of revolver cams using an ecuflash?
On a different topic, I have seen a ton of dyno graphs of stock and stock style turbos where the TQ is equal to or greater than HP. Maybe it is our cooler east coast air . . . ?
As far as my car goes, I have had the pleasure of driving it now for a few days. Makes great power on pump gas and methanol injection. I will be swapping over to race gas tomorrow to see how that feels. Torque output, even on 93, is great. Full boost around 3000 rpms and pulls strong all the way to redline.
Raced it in an autocross Monday - even on low boost (giving up 60whp) I whipped every car there on street tires by over 2 seconds. The ADVAN Neovas really hook up. They feel alot different than the Azenis RT-615 that I ran last year. Still trying to find the optimal tire pressure for them . . . I think just monkeying around with pressures I could have gained another second. More power on race gas would have gained another 1/2 to 1 second, so with those I would have been in the territory of cars on Hoosiers and Kumho's , all on my little Neovas. Thanks David Buschur for the smooth tuning and the great power!!
EVOlutionary
May 31, 2006, 08:27 AM
#55
The dyno charts are in reference to HP and Torque matching or being close to each other. I made a statement that I didn't think it was a big deal to have the torque match the HP.
A car in point was last week I tuned a stock turbo'd EVO. Very odd combination. All of our parts on the car but in an odd order. The car made 277 whp and 320 ft lbs of torque, on 94 octane.
A car in point was last week I tuned a stock turbo'd EVO. Very odd combination. All of our parts on the car but in an odd order. The car made 277 whp and 320 ft lbs of torque, on 94 octane.
Jul 31, 2006, 01:05 PM
#58
Originally Posted by Joe's_EVO8
So what do you think of this setup still?
I am battling a surging/BOV stuttering issue. The EVO9 20G was supposed to have done away with all of the surging that was known in the EVO8 20G, but it seems that at least with the Revolver Cams it is still present. We are working on a couple ideas to fix this. It does make the car very abrupt in on/off throttle situations, and nearly impossible to hold part-throttle at times.
I think this will be (once the surging is fixed) a perfect setup for a Street Mod class autocross car, especially if you can rev it to at least 8000RPMs. You could pull from 10MPH to 70+MPH without shifting depending on how high you set your rev limiter. Sure, at 8000 or 9000 RPM's you won't be making as much power as at 6000, but the time you will save without having to upshift and downshift a couple times on course will more than make up for it.
Originally Posted by zze86
wow, impressive! 
EVOlutionary
