Lessons learned ~ 2.3 stroker w/ stock turbo
Jun 17, 2006, 10:03 PM
#16
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I'm curious what effect, if any, adding a 10.5 hotside or a IX turbo would have on the surging condition.
Would anyone with a non-9.8 stock turbo'd 2.3L care to chime in?
Would anyone with a non-9.8 stock turbo'd 2.3L care to chime in?
Jun 18, 2006, 12:23 AM
#17
Originally Posted by SlowCar
I got a 2.4L before i got the 9 and my buddy moto17 got a JAM 2.3.....yep spools at 2000rpm and drives like a V8
Don't get me wrong but Scotts car runs like **** as we speak. Since you left Tucson he got his car back. I drove along side him, me, Edwin and Scott(the guy with the 2.3 stroker and stock turbo) and Edwin already smokes him really bad with the stocker 2.0 liter block.
Right now he (Scott, moto17) blames on the tunning which he has NONE and never had it to start with. Off course I agree a stroker kit should give you tons of torque and fast spool up. You specifically know Scotts 2.3 liter stock turbo history very well.
Botton line Abner I keep proving that perhaps the stock block is in some terms very reliable.
Abner, don't go too far look around AZ area:
Gaijin faulkty rod on the 2.4l
12monkey months to get his car right and having issues with cyl 4(stroked)
Scotts 2.3liter running slower than stock block
Your own car, in pieces on the dealer for nearly two months now
Topnotchevo 2.3 stroker
Abner, these are guys that you also know. I believe the overall reliability of this kits goes along with many other factors. I am here to give you real factors, all these people including you haven't had their cars for months.
The guy that open this topic is telling us how it is for real. The moment you pt the stroker you have to think about the enforced clutch, about the tunning, about the injectors, blah, blah blah
Abner, last but not least, Mr vanderpool's Evo 8 (Silver Evo 8 with all the mods including aquamist and Apexi rx-6 turbo kit)was finally finished on Friday and it made it inaugural voyage to SIR(Speedway International Raceway, Tucson, 3100ft).
Despite its significant power 449whp on a Mustang Dyno the car ran a best of 12.8 and trapped 114-117 with poor 60' s
get the facts: fastest Evos in Tucson run on stock turbos, so far Evo 8 with turbokit proven to be slower at SIR. solid facts....
my .2c
Carlos
Last edited by fromWRXtoEVO; Jun 18, 2006 at 12:37 AM.
Jun 18, 2006, 09:00 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by smokedmustang
Have you taken it to the strip yet? any difference? (If you took there before that is)
Jun 18, 2006, 09:14 AM
#20
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Originally Posted by fromWRXtoEVO
Abner,
Don't get me wrong but Scotts car runs like **** as we speak. Since you left Tucson he got his car back. I drove along side him, me, Edwin and Scott(the guy with the 2.3 stroker and stock turbo) and Edwin already smokes him really bad with the stocker 2.0 liter block.
Right now he (Scott, moto17) blames on the tunning which he has NONE and never had it to start with. Off course I agree a stroker kit should give you tons of torque and fast spool up. You specifically know Scotts 2.3 liter stock turbo history very well.
Botton line Abner I keep proving that perhaps the stock block is in some terms very reliable.
Abner, don't go too far look around AZ area:
Gaijin faulkty rod on the 2.4l
12monkey months to get his car right and having issues with cyl 4(stroked)
Scotts 2.3liter running slower than stock block
Your own car, in pieces on the dealer for nearly two months now
Topnotchevo 2.3 stroker
Abner, these are guys that you also know. I believe the overall reliability of this kits goes along with many other factors. I am here to give you real factors, all these people including you haven't had their cars for months.
The guy that open this topic is telling us how it is for real. The moment you pt the stroker you have to think about the enforced clutch, about the tunning, about the injectors, blah, blah blah
Abner, last but not least, Mr vanderpool's Evo 8 (Silver Evo 8 with all the mods including aquamist and Apexi rx-6 turbo kit)was finally finished on Friday and it made it inaugural voyage to SIR(Speedway International Raceway, Tucson, 3100ft).
Despite its significant power 449whp on a Mustang Dyno the car ran a best of 12.8 and trapped 114-117 with poor 60' s
get the facts: fastest Evos in Tucson run on stock turbos, so far Evo 8 with turbokit proven to be slower at SIR. solid facts....
my .2c
Carlos
Don't get me wrong but Scotts car runs like **** as we speak. Since you left Tucson he got his car back. I drove along side him, me, Edwin and Scott(the guy with the 2.3 stroker and stock turbo) and Edwin already smokes him really bad with the stocker 2.0 liter block.
Right now he (Scott, moto17) blames on the tunning which he has NONE and never had it to start with. Off course I agree a stroker kit should give you tons of torque and fast spool up. You specifically know Scotts 2.3 liter stock turbo history very well.
Botton line Abner I keep proving that perhaps the stock block is in some terms very reliable.
Abner, don't go too far look around AZ area:
Gaijin faulkty rod on the 2.4l
12monkey months to get his car right and having issues with cyl 4(stroked)
Scotts 2.3liter running slower than stock block
Your own car, in pieces on the dealer for nearly two months now
Topnotchevo 2.3 stroker
Abner, these are guys that you also know. I believe the overall reliability of this kits goes along with many other factors. I am here to give you real factors, all these people including you haven't had their cars for months.
The guy that open this topic is telling us how it is for real. The moment you pt the stroker you have to think about the enforced clutch, about the tunning, about the injectors, blah, blah blah
Abner, last but not least, Mr vanderpool's Evo 8 (Silver Evo 8 with all the mods including aquamist and Apexi rx-6 turbo kit)was finally finished on Friday and it made it inaugural voyage to SIR(Speedway International Raceway, Tucson, 3100ft).
Despite its significant power 449whp on a Mustang Dyno the car ran a best of 12.8 and trapped 114-117 with poor 60' s
get the facts: fastest Evos in Tucson run on stock turbos, so far Evo 8 with turbokit proven to be slower at SIR. solid facts....
my .2c
Carlos
The biggest factor, as I see it, is what are you looking for from your car. I wanted a car that would work well at track days and not require me to rev the snot out of the engine to access the power. I am not looking for 600hp or anything close for that matter. I want a reasonably safe 400hp that I can track for 30-40mins at a time.
Another thing that I want to throw in is that the reliability is completely based on build quality. Oil consumption is completely based on build quality. Power is based on build quality. I am lucky enough to have a very well built engine which makes good power without alky or racegas on low boost and conservative timing.
Jun 18, 2006, 09:26 AM
#21
Good points! I don't want a 600AWHP car either, and I am NOT a drag racer either. I guess that is a "benchmark" on how "quick" a car is. I want the quickness, use it for a daily driver, and want to use the car for HPDE track-days, autocrosses, and an "occasional" strip run. I think I will be happy with the setup.
Jun 18, 2006, 09:28 AM
#22
I had a FP White Rabbit with my 2.3, 20 lbs @ 2500-2600 RPM's..... I have the stock 9.8 on and it feels like it spools like a slug in comparison to the WR even though it still spools much faster then the 2.0. That rabbit with the 2.3 was really very close to a naturally aspirated car, the lag was nearly non existant. I have sold the turbo and am selling the car, but it was a hell of a combo. Over 400 whp on 20 lbs 93 oct, not a hint of det, and the tq started low and just kept on going.
Jun 18, 2006, 09:32 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by joeycoates
I had a FP White Rabbit with my 2.3, 20 lbs @ 2500-2600 RPM's..... I have the stock 9.8 on and it feels like it spools like a slug in comparison to the WR even though it still spools much faster then the 2.0. That rabbit with the 2.3 was really very close to a naturally aspirated car, the lag was nearly non existant. I have sold the turbo and am selling the car, but it was a hell of a combo. Over 400 whp on 20 lbs 93 oct, not a hint of det, and the tq started low and just kept on going.
Did you do trackdays with your car? I am worried about the heat that the small turbo will put out during a full track weekend.
Jun 18, 2006, 10:05 AM
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I was dead set on not tracking the car with the stock turbo but you are making me rethink that. I don't want to waste $400 on a weekend when my car starts to pull timing and detonating all over the place. Plus I have to find a way to log on the track (with a UTEC) without a laptop.
Jun 18, 2006, 10:01 PM
#26
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Strange you are having surging problems, maybe the 10.5t exhaust housing makes a difference?
As i'm running a 2.3L stroker and an Evo6 RS turbo (Same as TME RS turbo) and have no problems at all.
As i'm running a 2.3L stroker and an Evo6 RS turbo (Same as TME RS turbo) and have no problems at all.
Jun 19, 2006, 04:33 AM
#27
If one studies a compressor map, he needs to pay attention to the surge line. If the engine spools the turbo quickly enough such that it is able to produce sufficiently high manifold pressure at low mass air flow, this can move things to the left side of the surge line, and there will be surge.
If someone can provide rpm and boost pressure where the surge occurs, we can calculate the mass air flow at that point and have a look at the compressor map. If this turns out to be the case, a likely solution is to gradually reduce the boost pressure at low rpm just until the point where the surge ceases. Also, one should be mindful of the ignition timing settings, as if the map is out of whack, that can cause high EGT, which will spool the turbo quickly - to the detriment of everything in the exhaust system.
If someone can provide rpm and boost pressure where the surge occurs, we can calculate the mass air flow at that point and have a look at the compressor map. If this turns out to be the case, a likely solution is to gradually reduce the boost pressure at low rpm just until the point where the surge ceases. Also, one should be mindful of the ignition timing settings, as if the map is out of whack, that can cause high EGT, which will spool the turbo quickly - to the detriment of everything in the exhaust system.
Jun 19, 2006, 05:07 AM
#28
we are currently waiting for our stage3 JAM shortblock to be completed.
there was a backlog on Venolia pistons, but they have now been coated and should be in anytime.
We also had them build the head with dual springs, new oversized valves, etc...
i am going to be running this on our project evo mr with a gt35R (.63 which may be bumped to .82) and 880cc injectors for pump gas and 1000's when i want to run more. We dont build drag cars, as i am a professional road racer, and this is a daily driver, once the sti is sold.
Jackson is very professional and upfront about their precision work, plus they are local to us. We talked to buschur, slowboy, and ams about stroker kits, and they were all more than willing to answer any and all questions for us. But we felt comfortable with JAM being 40 minutes away.
I have very high expections, and i can't wait to see the results on this particular build. I will be utilizing the UTEC with an ecuflash reflash and will be tuning it on our mustang dyno when it arrives.
before we made 372whp and 330 ft lbs on a stock block with a 60-1 non ballbearing turbonetcs with 1000 injectors, turboback, fmic, utec on 93 octane at 23psi. stock the car made apprx 207/236 i believe.
Im pretty certain we will make high 400whp now with the 35R, head and motor work, cams etc..... on pump gas on the mustang. and well over mid to high 500's on race fuel and a conservative map. but time will tell.
ill keep you posted.
cheers
cb
there was a backlog on Venolia pistons, but they have now been coated and should be in anytime.
We also had them build the head with dual springs, new oversized valves, etc...
i am going to be running this on our project evo mr with a gt35R (.63 which may be bumped to .82) and 880cc injectors for pump gas and 1000's when i want to run more. We dont build drag cars, as i am a professional road racer, and this is a daily driver, once the sti is sold.
Jackson is very professional and upfront about their precision work, plus they are local to us. We talked to buschur, slowboy, and ams about stroker kits, and they were all more than willing to answer any and all questions for us. But we felt comfortable with JAM being 40 minutes away.
I have very high expections, and i can't wait to see the results on this particular build. I will be utilizing the UTEC with an ecuflash reflash and will be tuning it on our mustang dyno when it arrives.
before we made 372whp and 330 ft lbs on a stock block with a 60-1 non ballbearing turbonetcs with 1000 injectors, turboback, fmic, utec on 93 octane at 23psi. stock the car made apprx 207/236 i believe.
Im pretty certain we will make high 400whp now with the 35R, head and motor work, cams etc..... on pump gas on the mustang. and well over mid to high 500's on race fuel and a conservative map. but time will tell.
ill keep you posted.
cheers
cb
Jun 19, 2006, 06:12 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by Ted B
If one studies a compressor map, he needs to pay attention to the surge line. If the engine spools the turbo quickly enough such that it is able to produce sufficiently high manifold pressure at low mass air flow, this can move things to the left side of the surge line, and there will be surge.
If someone can provide rpm and boost pressure where the surge occurs, we can calculate the mass air flow at that point and have a look at the compressor map. If this turns out to be the case, a likely solution is to gradually reduce the boost pressure at low rpm just until the point where the surge ceases. Also, one should be mindful of the ignition timing settings, as if the map is out of whack, that can cause high EGT, which will spool the turbo quickly - to the detriment of everything in the exhaust system.
If someone can provide rpm and boost pressure where the surge occurs, we can calculate the mass air flow at that point and have a look at the compressor map. If this turns out to be the case, a likely solution is to gradually reduce the boost pressure at low rpm just until the point where the surge ceases. Also, one should be mindful of the ignition timing settings, as if the map is out of whack, that can cause high EGT, which will spool the turbo quickly - to the detriment of everything in the exhaust system.
I will try to get a log of a low RPM throttle application to get some numbers and we can hopefully figure it out. I was not very worried about it but I don't want to kill the turbo and I may pick up a 10.5t hotside for extra protection.
Jun 19, 2006, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by CBRD
we are currently waiting for our stage3 JAM shortblock to be completed.
Jackson is very professional and upfront about their precision work, plus they are local to us. We talked to buschur, slowboy, and ams about stroker kits, and they were all more than willing to answer any and all questions for us. But we felt comfortable with JAM being 40 minutes away.
Jackson is very professional and upfront about their precision work, plus they are local to us. We talked to buschur, slowboy, and ams about stroker kits, and they were all more than willing to answer any and all questions for us. But we felt comfortable with JAM being 40 minutes away.