Noize

iTrader: (24)

Hey bro, sorry I missed this.

I really like the kit. On pump fuel, its stronger than it ever was with the TME on race gas. The lag is somewhat noticable, but a lot less than a 3067. The car is very rewarding to rev, so if I find myself in a place where there is not quite enough torque, I simply downshift and get in the powerband I need.

One thing you have to remember is that the ramp rate on the dyno is going to be very different than loading the car on the street from a lower RPM in 5th gear. I never have to downshift to pass, but the urgency it had with a 16G from a 5th gear WOT tip in at 70mph definitely was a bit more pronounced.

Its a total worthwhile trade, depending on your driving style. If you like Honda power delivery, its wonderful. If you like old pushrod V8s like 302 Fords that hit harder down low, you might want to reconsider. I love to rev, and never want to go back to an internally gated 20G/IX/16G hybrid.

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

I'm not comparing nectarines or any other fruit of your choice to oranges at all. Did I for one minute compare my power numbers to yours? No. All I said is that on my car, with my level of modifications, the 50 trim outperformed the 3071 in ALL areas. It is as direct of a 1:1 comparison as you can get between the two turbos.

For all I know the 3071 works great when combined with the stock exhaust manifold (aka Vishnu stage 2), but it definitely did not when paired with a SS exhaust manifold. I also had surge issues in 5th gear with the 3071, which I do not have with the 50 trim.


If you want to compare your setup to mine ... at the moment I have full boost ranging from 4000 rpm to 9000 rpm, peak power at 7800 rpm, and a useable rpm range of ~4700 rpm when you factor in the stock gearing. That's something the Vishnu stage 2 couldn't offer, which is one of the reasons why I went a different route with my turbo build...

l8r)

scorke

iTrader: (18)

Sorry Ludi, to me, making peak power at 7800 rpms is faaaaaar from optimal. Also what do you attribute to the very low tq numbers, do they not seem to be far off what they should be, considering those are the sort of numbers a mildly modded 8 would put down?

Also, Noize's car is making the same tq that yours is on a DD!!!!!!!!!

Scorke

Noize

iTrader: (24)

I'm not in total agreement with you on the lag. In your graphs, the 3071 comes in stronger, but looks like it spools a tad bit later. While this may be the case on the graph you supplied, its far from an exact science. My race gas map looks a lot laggier than my pump map, but that's because my manifold was very hot from repeated runs on that pump graph, where it was a little cooler on the race gas graphs. Couple that with a DD having variable ramp rates unlike a Dynojet, and there's no direct spool correlation. Regardless, manifold heat will slightly help spool.

As far as surge, I've zero surge with the 3071 and my Forge RS.

Next, shifting at 9000rpm with your setup seems pointless, as the power is clearly on its way down at 7500. 10% past peak on your car is around 7800, so you'll be slower (and playing Russian Roulette a lot more) if you continually rev it to 9k. Piston speeds are asinine at that level for a daily driver. All the big drag cars that rev that far and beyond, its because they have giant turbos that make power up there. Yours does not.

Lastly, I know my mod route is not your route, nor do I expect it to be. Tons of people make great power with AMS kits, and I'm sure your car would still struggle with the Vishnu kit with the current output the engine makes now. You have thousands of dollars and a ton more parts on your car than I do. Does it not seem strange that you are making so much less power than my 3071 in "ALL areas"? Something is obviously very wrong with your car, as it has stock turbo with stock engine like output. All that to say, its not a good test bed for quantifying anything IMO, least of all upgraded turbochargers.

I started this thread to show people that an Evo with so many stock components can still make really good power with a good turbo kit, not have a whizzing contest with a guy with a built motor.

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

Again, my comment was not in regards to power, but in regards to comparing the 3071 with a 50 trim. There is a reason why a lot of people have gone with the 50 trim over the 3071 (AMS doesn't even offer the 3071 anymore).

Scorke, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I chose to build a car that will support a 9000+ RPM redline and I wanted a torque curve that would give me an ~8500 rpm shift point with the stock gearing and on 93 Octane gas. After a long build up and a lot of problems I have finally achieved that and seem to have finally bested the gremlins plaguing the project (at least for this week, LOL).

As far as the power is concerned, that is still a work in progress. As the car sits right now it makes ~400whp on AMS AWD DynoJet with a relatively conservative tune (low 10s for AFR). Unfortunately that also includes the ECU pulling timing - not due to knock, but theoretically due to the car overrunning the ECU load values. That's something I'm working on fixing right now.

l8r)

Gruppe-S

iTrader: (206)

The 3071 is a great mid-tier turbo for those looking for a good balance between spool-up and performance. We have not tested any TD05 turbine wheel based turbos that comes close to the performance characteristics of the GT3071 on pump or race gas and this includes the myriad of 20G hybrids (20G / TD05) on the market. This is why we selected the GT3071 for our stage 3 application.

Cheers,

Gary
Gruppe-S

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

I was getting full spool on the street at 4000 rpm with the 3071, which was ... underwhelming at best. I gained 200 rpm with the 50 trim, all other modifications being equal.
_
If that was your goal, then why title the thread "Want a nice aftermarket turbo that's not too bad on lag? Consider a Garrett 3071"?

and if you don't want a whizzing contest, then why "whip it out" with your admittedly OT comment?

All I did was answer your topic question with what has proven to be a better alternative for me.

l8r)

RogueSTi

iTrader: (14)

Good stuff! I am on the fence about the 50Trim versus the 3071 kit.

scorke

iTrader: (18)

Jump off the fence and get a 3076 if you don't want to feel that you should of gone bigger ever...... or go with the 50trim if your a lag weenie, I was, I ended up with the 3076 and am happppppppppy.

Scorke

RogueSTi

iTrader: (14)

I still don't know the difference between the 3076, the 3071, and the 3037. Then the 50 trim makes the scene....now speedomodel is telling me abojut a Precision SC34 turbo.... I give up.

oh yeah, I almost forgot...a UK company has a GT35R turbo with a tiny a/r that spools super fast.

Noize

iTrader: (24)

It accomplishes all the above in both quotes. Its a good midsize turbo.

Because you threadjacked me and went OT with your 50 trim stuff first...

...using a broken car as your yardstick. Your test quantifies nothing other than the fact that there is a white car up north that makes 16G like power with two aftermarket turbos that should make a lot more.

Moreover, your 3071 kit was completely different than mine, so your inability "to second the motion on the 3071" is so not on the topic of this thread, its ridiculous.


On topic:
Scorke is right. If you want to make big power, hold it, and don't mind a little more lag, look to a 3076, as it won't fall off up top like the 3071 does.

Jorge T

iTrader: (18)

...

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

scorke

iTrader: (18)

3037=3076 hope that clears up some, the 50 trim is very close to the 3071, the 3076 is bigger.


Scorke

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

My bad, you are right, of course. If you want a good mid-sized turbo, go with the 3071. If you want a better mid-sized turbo, get a 50 trim.

Why is it that I almost feel like I should apologize for bursting the 3071 bubble? ...well, almost. Unlike all the haterz, I actually spent the time and money to test the turbos back to back. If I get the time, I'll even extend the testing to cover the 3076 variants later this summer. All I'm interested in is getting the best turbo to match up to what I want to get out of my car.

The car or level of tune really is irrelevant, since all of those factors were kept the same for both turbos. If anyone can present data to the contrary, I'd be happy to see it.

l8r)